WotLK Rogue Changes - Patch 3.0.3

Nothing too game breaking for this round of rogue changes, though it’s certainly nice to get some clarification. Specifically regarding fan of knives, which has been somewhat of mystery for some time now. I like the idea of giving rogues more AoE potential, it could certainly create some new and exciting changes in both PvE and PvP. We’ll have to see exactly where blizzard puts the damage at in a couple of days when these changes go live on the PTR.

When will Shadow Dance fixed?
I think I said before that changing the bar won’t happen soon. It will be after Nov 13 and Lich King ships. The change to the cooldown on the openers should be in now on beta and very soon on live.

Balance Fan of Knives
We’d love to get rogue AE higher if we can do it where Fan is only used for AE and not as a general part of the single-target rotation. Also note that comparing anyone to a Ret paladin recently, and especially at 70, isn’t going to be a great comparison. Elemental isn’t designed to have an advantage over mage single-target dps, but rogues should have an advantage over warrior single-target dps.

Combat Potency and Fan of Knives Synergy
So it turns out the Combat Potency change to nerf Shiv also keeps Fan of Knives from generating Energy. Making the cooldown zero might do weird things to PvP when a rogue stands there and throws out knives to attempt break stealth. But we can probably lower it to 10 sec or so. That’s Thunderclap / Whirlwind range.

Hemorrhage vs. Sinister Strike
But the charges are the entire point. Hemo is supposed to be a debuff, not an alternative to Sinister Strike. It in fact yields better damage per energy than Sinister Strike untalented and it’s only the talents that prop up the latter ability. Adding more Hemo talents just gives you another high dps, spammable attack.

It is true that the rogue personally may not benefit a lot from Hemo when the charges get used up correctly. I think the attitude that that is “bad” just stems from the “winning the damage meters” mentality, not whether the ability helps you beat the boss. I’m not saying that looking at damage meters makes you shallow. I understand a nearsighted raid leader may not take you if your personal dps is low, but we’re also not sure what to do about that until we can come up with some kind of “raid contribution” measurement that includes your buffs and debuffs.

Mage / Rogue Vs. Mage / Rogue 2v2 Arena Strategy

Ah yes, the mirror match. Mage / rogue arena strategy mirrors can be particularly difficult, as they require quick reaction time and well executed strategy in order to successfully gain the edge on your opponent. As with any double DPS team even the slightest of errors can quickly lead to a loss

Rogue Opener Strategy

Ideally you want to find the rogue and immediately open up on him. However, this is easier said than done. Chances are both rogues are going to have max stealth talents, so it’s pretty much a toss up that you’re going to get the opener. However, if you do happen to get the opener on the rogue you’re in a great position, you’ve immediately forced the opposing team to have to react to you.

If they don’t make the correct decision with an immediate crowd control they are going to be far behind and well on their way to losing.

Mage’s 2v2 Strategy Role

If your rogue does happen to get the opener then you need to be able to go right into action. If at all possible get immediate CC on the opposing mage and start dropping shatter combos on the rogue. This is where things start moving really quickly.

Side Note: Mage 2v2 Tips Compendium

What If I can’t find the rogue?

This is where things can get really sketchy. If the match timer gets to the point where the shadow sight buffs come up it’s probably just going to be a wash as far as the opener is concerned. Your only concern at this point is to not get absolutely screwed.

How can you get completely screwed you ask?

1. Both mages are going for the buff, your mage gets sapped, then the mage and / or rogue gets the shadow sight buff, finds you and the rogue opens on you.
2. The opposing rogue picks up the buff, vanishes and shadowstep + cheap shots you.

That said, these are the techniques we are going to try and use against the opposing team in order to gain the advantage. A lot of rogues will simply let their mage pick it up and trade the openers, and this is a fine strategy I suppose. But for me I’d much rather have the fight in my hands, so picking up the stealth buff and immediately going after the rogue is my game plan.

All the while my mage is either going for the other buff and / or keeping the other mage temporarily distracted and /or crowd controlled. If all goes well you’ll have the opener shortly there after and have a huge lead early on.

Game Pace and Reaction Time

More than anything else your reaction time and understanding the pace of these games is going to be a key factor in your success. If your a mage you’re prime goal early on is going to be keeping the other mage out of the fight so you can assist your rogue. Additionally, if you’re the rogue you need to do everything within your power to avoid taking damage while locking down and punishing the opposing rogue.

Rogue’s Crowd Control and Damage Avoidance

Always be watching for the possible crowd control trains on you. While most teams will just play the mage vs. mage CC battle some may go for a switch, especially if you are without a trinket (this should always be in the back of your mind because you can do the same thing to them!).

If the rogue makes a stupid decision on the trinket you can simply go blind into a sap combo and bomb on the mage. Even if you aren’t able to kill the mage you’re put him into an immediate defensive position, potentially allow your team to regen / bandage some life, and certainly made the mage go through a lot of mana kiting you.

Whether it’s damage or crowd control, as the rogue you have a lot of tools to really make the mage’s job hell.

• Vanish immune shatter combos or sheeps
• Cloak of Shadows shatter combos or sheeps
• Toss a gouge if the mage is within range to cut casts
• Toss a kick if the mage is withing range. Brief note here, using focus kick macros makes this incredibly easy, so you can conduct drive by kicks on the mage without even having to target him.
• Use blind to stop casts. Not always worth it, but sometimes necessary if you are close to dying.

Mage’s Crowd Control and Avoidance

Just like the rogue the mage has the ability to prevent / break many of the potential CC’s. Versus most 2v2 teams you’d want to use these on a bit slower pace, but in an arena matchup as face paced and furious as this you simply CANNOT take a full duration poly or blind. So be prepared to quickly use your…

• Ice Block / Trinket on sheeps and blind when necessary
• Help your rogue cut the mage’s casts via sheep and crowd control, especially on shatter combos

Using focus macros for your sheep and counterspell macros will really help you out with this, I strongly recommend you get comfortable with them as they are fastest way to making quicker decisions.

Looking for more strategies? Check out the complete rogue / mage 2v2 arena strategy guide!

Rogue / Rogue Vs. Druid / Rogue 2v2 Arena Strategy

Rogue / Rogue vs. Druid / Rogue is no easy match, typically any team with a druid is going to be a tough match for a double rogue team. That said, using systemic decision making and quick reflexes we can learn how to effectively counter these 2v2 teams.

Ideal Strategy, Jump the Druid in Stealth

Ideally what we’re going to try and do is find the druid in stealth and immediately open on him. This serves 2 purposes.

1. Gets you into combat and prevents you from being sapped
2. Puts immediate pressure on the druid

If everything goes as planned you’ll kill the druid straight up, but for any of you who have played double rogue for any stretch of time you know this is rarely how it happens.

The Druid is in Bear form, what do I do?

Often times druids are wise to double DPS teams and will immediately exit stealth as soon as they realize there are rogues and enter bear form. This is when this combo can be very difficult.

Let’s be frank, you probably aren’t going to burst a druid in bear form out. So you have a few options. First, and probably the most effective is going to be attack the open and drop a bomb on the rogue. If you get a solid opener and / or if the druid is out of position you can immediately red line the rogue. Make sure you have your rupture up on the rogue as you know he’ll be going for a vanish.

Once you’ve got the opener going on the rogue you need to be looking to crowd control the druid. Either via gouge, kick, or if the druid is dumb enough a blind / sap combo. Most games the druid is still going to get a few HoTs and the NS off, but this doesn’t mean you lose. Keep up the damage, evasion tank the rogue and keep working to get the druid out of the fight. You’ve got 2 blinds, a potential sap combo, kick and gouge to punish the druid with.

Is Switching Targets a Good Strategy?

I think many double DPS teams really are reluctant to try a target switch, in some cases this fear is rational. However, if a switch is handled in the proper way it can be very effective. For example, many rogues may panic when they see a two other rogues attacking them. In the event he trinkets a CS or  KS you’ve got him right where you want him.

What if the rogue trinkets my blind?

At this point you should throw the blind, which you’re going to transition into at least 1, probably 2 saps. This will give you a minimum of 20 seconds to have unrestricted damage on the druid. Even if the druid is sitting in bear form 20 seconds is a long period of time, especially if you can evasion tank the rogue for an additional 15 seconds after your crowd controls have ended.

Final Points on Avoiding Crowd Control

On a double DPS team every second counts, it is absolutely crucial you avoid being crowd controlled at all times. In the case of this team you are going to want to save your trinket for a blind, the only scenario you wouldn’t want to use your trinket on blind is if the rogue was just reeling on you and caught you medium / low health in a KS.

It’s very helpful to set the druid as your focus target, this will allow you to watch incoming crowd control on you so you can take the appropriate action to avoid being taken out of the fight. These actions include:

• Preemptive Cloak of Shadows on cyclone / root
  
• Vanish immune on cyclone / root
• Vanish immune on feral charge
• Preemptive evasion if you believe the druid may attempt to bash you
• Preemptive evasion if you believe the rogue is about to blind you (if your trinket is down, note: This is very hard to watch for, especially if you don’t have your focus on the rogue)

Looking for more rogue / rogue strategies? Check out the complete rogue / rogue 2v2 arena guide!

Mage / Rogue vs. Warrior / Druid 2v2 Arena Strategy

Oh man for every one of you guys out there, you’ll see about thirty of these. Some are competent, others face roll.

Rogue

See if you can find the druid in stealth. Before opening try to sap the warrior if possible. Do a KS lockdown to force the druid to trinket. Once you and your mage have a good CC train rolling on the warrior, Kidney shot again to shatter burst the druid.

Mage

Control the warrior in any way possible. Freeze effects, sheeps, whatever just take him out of the game and kill his carrier.

If the druid can’t be found:

Rogue open on the warrior(save premeditation) to force the druid to come out. Vanish and pull a switch to the druid, run cc trains on the warrior and win. It’s a good idea to not wait for the stealth detect eyes, as a smart druid will go into bear form at this point.

Looking for more strategies? Check out the complete rogue / mage 2v2 arena strategy guide!

More WotLK Rogue Changes

If you’re having a hard time keeping up with the flood of changes pouring in, well I can’t blame you…there seems to be some sort of game breaking change every 12-24 hours. Make sure you check out my full WotLK News Wrap Up to get caught up on all these changes.

Take a look below at the newest changes to the rogue class.

Overall I’m very happy with these changes. One of my biggest concerns with the last round of rogue changes was changing cloak of shadows from 1 minute to 2, but they’ve split the difference at 90 seconds now (with elusiveness taking it down by 30 seconds with 2 points). I think this is a fair change to both rogues and casters alike.

Additionally the disarm trap range is awesome, and well over due. The whole disarming trap mechanic has been a joke since it was introduced, but this change should really help add a new level of hunter vs. rogue intrigue.

The rest of the changes, which are mostly talent combines and tree position movements, look pretty solid. It should give the rogue class many additional options as far as hybrid specs are concerned. Ideally I’d love to see changes like this with other classes, as it further helps to escape the endless cycle of cookie cutter perfection that WoW talent builds have been sucked into.

General

• Cloak of Shadows cooldown changed to 1.5 min.
• Disarm Trap range increased to 20 yds, cast time reduced to 1 sec, now requires stealth.
• (NEW – Level 75) Tricks of the Trade: The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time. 30 sec cooldown. (Surprise! Yes, this is the new group/raid utility ability. We haven’t put any stacking protection on it yet but we’ll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations. Note also that you cannot use this ability on yourself.)

Assassination

• Vigor moved to Tier 3.
• Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20% chance.
• Murder moved to Tier 6, now increases damage by 2/4%.
• (NEW – Tier 7) Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.
• Focused Attacks and Turn the Tables have swapped locations.
• Master Poisoner moved to Tier 9, no longer increases chance to hit with poison attacks, now increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (This does not stack with the Paladin talent Heart of the Crusader.)
• Hunger for Blood duration increased to 30 seconds.

Combat

• Precision now also increases chance to hit with poison attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%.
• Nerves of Steel will now reduce damage taken while stunned or feared by 15/30% rather than reducing duration.
• Improved Sprint moved to Tier 4.
• Blade Twisting now slows movement speed by 70%.
• Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
• Throwing Specialization now also has a chance to interrupt target when Fan of Knives is used.
• Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon’s damage.
• Stay of Execution removed, replaced with Blood Poisoning.
• (NEW – Tier 9) Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%.
• Prey on the Weak now increases critical strike damage of all attacks.
• Killing Spree is the new name for Murder Spree and should be working much better very soon.

Subtlety

• Shadowstep will no longer be usable while rooted.
• Elusiveness moved to Tier 3, now reduces cooldown of Cloak of Shadows by 15/30 sec.
• Premeditation cooldown reduced to 20 sec.
• Preparation no longer refreshes the cooldown to Premeditation.
• Master of Deception reduced to 3 ranks.
• Opportunity reduces to 2 ranks for 10/20%.
• Camouflage reduced to 3 ranks for 5/10/15% speed and 2/4/6 sec off the cooldown of Stealth.
• Initiative moved to Tier 4, increased to 33/66/100% chance.
• Improved Ambush moved to Tier 4, reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%.
• Serrated Blades moved to Tier 3.
• Wrongfully Accused replaced with Filthy Tricks.
• (NEW – Tier 9) Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec.
• Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage ability by 1/2/3/4/5.
• Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec.

Rogue Stealth Guide

In theory this rogue stealth guide should be very simplistic. In essence, you gain stealth to become semi-invisible. However, there are many factors which can dramatically influence your ability to remain surreptitious during combat.

Basically, default level of stealth is 300 (Rank 4 at 70), same with druids Prowl (Rank 3 at 70). There are several ways to improve your stealth; various trinkets, a few boots, talents, enchants, potions, and presumably glyphs in the expansion.

At 61-70 lvl, there are overall 4 boots that increase your stealth (2 boots before TBC, Boots of Displacement and Darkmantle Boots ):

The Master’s Treads (+5 Stealth levels)
Silent-Strider Kneeboots (+5 Stealth levels)
Whisperwalk Boots (+5 Stealth levels)
Nightscape Boots (+5 Stealth levels)

Jewelcrafting trinkets:

Figurine - Shadowsong Panther (+5 Stealth levels)
Figurine - Nightseye Panther (+5 Stealth levels)
Figurine - Black Pearl Panther (+3 Stealth levels)

Enchants and consumables:

Enchant Cloak - Stealth (+5 Stealth levels)
Sneaking Potion (+30 Stealth levels)
Stealth of the Stalker (+8 Stealth levels)

Rogue/Druid talents, skills and racials:

Rogues
Master of Deception (1/5, +3 Stealth levels)
Master of Deception (2/5, +6 Stealth levels)
Master of Deception (3/5, +9 Stealth levels)
Master of Deception (4/5, +12 Stealth levels)
Master of Deception (5/5, +15 Stealth levels)
Vanish (Rank1 to Rank 3, +70 Stealth levels to stealth with Rank 3, 370 stealth in total)

Druids
Feral instinct (1/3, +5 stealth levels)
Feral instinct (2/3, +10 stealth levels)
Feral instinct (3/3, +15 stealth levels)

Night elf racial:
Shadowmeld Passive (+5 Stealth levels)

That pretty much covers it as far as stealth improvement goes, but now let’s move on to your detection chance.

Detection is pretty much like a counter of stealth, you don’t have be a stealth user yourself to get additional stealth detection. There are many ways to improve your stealth detection such as engineering goggles, talents, consumables, racial abilities, class abilities, etc.

Engineering goggles:

Hyper-Vision Goggles (+30 detect, when “used”)
Catseye Ultra Goggles (+18 detect, no level requiment but 220 engineering required)
The Night Watchman (+10 detect, random world BoE drop)
Bloodvine Lens (+10 detect)
Deathblow X11 Goggles (+5 Stealth detection)
Quad Deathblow X44 Goggles (+5 Stealth detection)

Talents, race/class abilities:
Heighened senses (+3 Detect, Rank 1 rogue talent)
Heighened senses (+6 Detect, Rank 2 rogue talent)
Perception (+50 Detect, Human racial ability)
Hunter’s Track Hidden (+30 Detect, Hunter class skill)
Warlock Felhunter’s Paranoia (+30 detect, Warlock class skill, pet)
Druid PVP Gloves (+10 detect, druid PVP reward)

Additionally, there is also one other special “Buff” called Shadow sight in arena that increases detection for an unknown amount. I’m pretty sure that it’s something unreachable by normal means, lets say over 1000 stealth detection. It could be even more considering you can see virtually any areas of the arena where a rogue or druid might be stealthed.

Rogue / Warlock vs. Priest / Rogue 2v2 Arena Strategy

Rogue / Warlock vs. Priest / Rogue 2v2 is a very difficult match up for you to win simply due to the nature of the priest’s spells. As a rogue / warlock 2v2 team you have a few main objectives you must achieve in order to win the match.

• Crowd control and lock down (both on healers and DPS)
• Minimize damage taken (this is usually no problem if you achieve point number 1)
• Force the other team into situations where misusing a trinket will cost them the game

Achieving these goals is no easy task, especially if the priest / rogue team have undead players on there team. Ideally you want to sap the rogue and immediately open on the priest. This allows you maximum time to apply all DoTs and have strong damage before the fight has even begun.

If the rogue trinkets the sap you should immediately blind him and stay on the priest. Following the blind you can hit him with a back to back fears followed by the vanish sap. Of course this is an absolute ideal scenario, as with any double DPS team things can quickly go wrong. But, if you’re able to pull off this type of well timed CC you have virtually assured yourself the win.

If you are unable to sap the rogue you have a few options.

1. Wait for stealth buffs to come up and force them to engage your warlock. This gives your rogue maximum time to find and sap the opposing rogue, allowing for the best possible opener.
2. If your rogue is unable to find the rogue / if the opposing rogue jumps the warlock you’ll have no choice but to open up on the rogue yourself. At this point the rogue’s gear choices will really come into effect.

If the rogue is wearing a large amount of tier 6 you should remain on his. Especially if you’ve already successfully secured the opener. The warlock should do what he can to position himself away from the rogue (out of LoS of Shadowstep if at all possible). At this point it really comes down to your crowd control. Keep the rogue locked down as much as possible and start the fear train on the priest.

If you’ve got enough pressure on the rogue at this point you’re in great shape. The priest will likely blow his trinket, at which point we can blind / vanish / sap combo the priest and finish off the rogue. In the event the rogue isn’t dead by the end of this CC train your fear will be off diminishing returns so you can simply start the fear combo up again and repeat the process.

I really view this matchup with 2 basic opening goals.

1. You sap the rogue and bomb the priest
2. You force the rogue to open on your lock and bomb the rogue

However, I would like to remind everyone there is no absolute strategy here that must be followed. If the rogue just isn’t dropping don’t be afraid pull a switch on the priest. Sometimes the sudden change in target can be enough to through the priest off his game and put him in a position where your team can gain the upper hand. Your crowd control and rotations are going to be more or less the same regardless of your actual target selection. It’s far more important to react quickly to the changing game.

Can’t get enough warlock / rogue 2v2 strategy? Check out the complete guide here! Rogue / Warlock 2v2 Arena Strategy.

Rogue / Rogue Vs. Warrior / Druid 2v2 Arena Strategy

Rogue / Rogue vs. warrior / druid 2v2 can be a difficult match up. If you get the opener you win, if not you’ve probably lost. Pay attention if your opponents are human and if that’s the case stay away from them for 20 seconds. Once the match begins you have about 2 minutes to find the druid(before stealth detect eyes come up). If you don’t find the druid, don’t worry Zuggaming has you covered on what to do.

If you find the druid…

Rogue #1 Strategy

Alert your partner the druid has been found, wait for them to get near you, then open up with a cheapshot going into an expose armor. Get ready to pop Evasion + GS because the warrior is going to be wailing on one of you. Blind the warrior and call his trinket. If your partner needs to bandage try to slow down the warrior any way possible to let them get away.

Rogue #1 Strategy

Once your partner finds the druid and you’re alerted hit the warrior with a real quick sap and get ready to down the druid. Open with a garrote going into a kidney shot(as your partner opened with CS and did an expose armor). You should also be ready to pop Evasion + Ghostly Strike as again the warrior will be wailing on one of you. Once the warrior pops his trinket on the first blind, you hit him with a second and continue to kill the druid. If your partner needs to get away to bandage stunlock the warrior or slow him down any way you can.

If the druid can’t be found:..

Rogue Arena Strategy

Both open with garrotes on the warrior followed by ruptures, once the druid pops vanish and do all of the above.

Hopefully you two will find the druid as it will make the match easier, but if not best of luck to you.

Looking for more rogue / rogue action? Check out Scyth’s the full strategy guide, rogue / rogue 2v2 arena strategy!

Rogue / Druid 2v2 Arena Strategy

The druid / rogue combo is an excellent team matrix and has the potential to go to the highest ratings. At times it may seem weak, but with practice you’ll learn to master the mechanics of coordinated crowd control that this matrix requires.

As with any team, there are distinct advantages and disadvantages.

Rogue / Druid Advantages:
-Awesome crowd control via the druid
-You can go out of combat (OOC) at virtually any time if something goes wrong or you need mana.
-Dual stealth.
-Lots of control via the rogue’s stuns and interrupts
-Very strong cooldowns and the ability to kite quite well.
-Ability to play both very offensively and defensively (spec depending)

Rogue / Druid Disadvantages:
-The druid must rely heavily on the rogue to lock down opposing targets, thus allowing the druid to crowd control and heal effectively
-Very precise matrix, timing is key in this matrix (specifically with cyclone)

Druid Arena Talent Builds
Restoration
8/11/42 This is the baseline restoration build. It offers the most healing of any viable talent build for druids.
11/11/39 Similar to the build below, slightly less offensive allowing for additional points in healing centric talents.
13/11/37 A more offensive version of the restoration build. Drops points in some of the excessive healing talents for 20% range on balance spells, insect swarm, and improved moon fire.

Resto-kin
34/0/27 This talent spec is vastly different than the above 3 I have listed. I requires a very offensive approach on both the rogue and druids part. While you pickup some of the good restoration talents you don’t have the ability to survive long durations as easily with this talent specs. However, plays comfortable with quickly shifting from defensive to offensive roles (IE..spamming wrath during bomb periods once you’ve got some crowd control out) will find this build well suited to them.

Need more spec advice? Druid Arena Talent Specs

Rogue Arena Talent Builds
Mutilate
41/20/0
49/0/12 (Heavy Poisons)
Mutilate is a viable spec, but it requires a very distinct “finesse” play style. If you’re not experienced with mutilate already I would not suggest playing it until you’ve had a chance to thoroughly advance your abilities with it.

Combat
16/45/0 (my preference)
20/41/0 (Vile poisons version)
20/41/0 (Riposte + Vile poisons version)

Subtlety
20/0/41

These are just a few of the potential specs you could choose to go with under the combat category. There are an infinite number of possible talent specs, you’re personal play style will determine which talents suit you better.

Need more spec advice? Rogue Arena Talent Specs

Rogue / Druid Arena Matchups:

• Warrior / Druid
• more coming soon!

Additional Resources:
Rogue Macro Guide
Rogue Focus Macros

Rogue / Druid PvP Arena Videos
Moonkin / Rogue 2v2 Video - Buddhist and Lewt