I'm personally not a fan. It could just be that I'm not used to them, but I feel the Ring of Valor completely removes any strategy that could've been salvaged since the buffs of 3.0. If there's a ret pally or any magic class that can AoE they've pretty much won if they just rush and spam. Also if there's a rogue you can just get an insta-sap which is dumb and gives almost no time for strategic thinking. It's basically like your opponent saying, "React to me within a one second window or else you're done." The sewers much like the ring provides very little LoS so basically the match is another fast gib. I simply don't find myself having fun in these new arenas for the fact that they took away part of the game I liked: Strategy. I know it's not just the arenas, but the current major imbalances. I'd still like to know what's your stance on these new areas?

ps: Where's my Nagrand tornadoes and no rope in BeA???

They look plain and unoriginal, like most of the new areas in Northrend...

I couldn't possibly disagree more.

What if he claimed you were a woman, Derek?

I know, I haven't seen any. Oh ho ho, I are hillarious.

In a pvp environment, anything 'random' is bad.

Whether or not the fire has a 'warning' before it spouts (or the waterspout int he sewers), they will end up doing the same job as the tornado in nagrand- they will change the outcome of games.

A DK / Pally, DK/Rogue, DK/prot warrior or even dk/frost mage team can grip you to on top of a burner in RoV and stunlock you there, and if your trinket is down you're gonna take some monumental damage. If they haven't figured that out yet, I promise they will.

RNG is almost entirely absent from truly 'competitive' games like starcraft (with extremely rare exceptions such as attacking uphill, but that's a competitive advantage factor that really doesn't account for too much outside of strategy and placement).

If blizz wants to make arenas fair, they should remove pillars, remove obstacles, remove hazards and all LOS objects, add pits with only 1 ramp upwards and out, so that players may choose to LOS if absolutely neccessary, but will pay by being 'boxed in' and only able to leave via 1 exit.

It's really stuff like pillars that have given hunters such a terrible time in the arena, not the class.

It's pillars that made druids so godlike against teams that would otherwise be able to put direct pressure on the druid's manapool rather than try to go toe-to-toe against some of the most efficient healing spells in WOW.

I still think locks are going to do fantastic on BEM and RoV, just because of the current demonic circle.

It's the best move in the game atm and will probably be nerfed, but hopefully it's steep requirements (you have to plant the freaking circle ahead of time; can't be used while stunned, etc) make it a 'thinking person's spell' and will therefore provide it with a bit of protection from the nerfbat. Who knows?


But ya, the new arenas are blegh.

I can't disagree with this assertion more. If you think that taking away all obstacles will make arenas better, I can only assume that you have always played ranged classes, and never started a melee class.

Look: ranged classes and melee classes can do comparable damage given ideal situations. However, you put a melee class vs a ranged class in an open field, and unless they are terrible, the ranged class always has an advantage, because its much easier to get far enough away to keep a melee class from being able to attack than it is for the melee class to close that distance once they get away.

LOS is essential to fair PVP. They have already helped hunters more than was necessary by completely removing their dead zone, so if they cannot figure out that it takes more time to run around a pillar when their path has a radius of 30 yards while their target is pillar humping with a radius of 5 years, that's an issue of intelligence, not unfair obstacles.

However, you have a point with the environmental sources of damage. My advice there is that you shouldn't stand on the hazards if you know that there's a chance of being locked down on top of them.

LoS works both ways though. True that druids would kite me like no other, but without that LoS the warrior would probably have their way with me in a matter of 10 seconds.

I played an alt rogue to 2100 in 2v2 on tich as double rogue while still using some blues during S4.

my 'just for fun' Rogue/Warrior cheese team nearly took Didy's team (second place on the bg at the time) out of glad contention entirely.

...And when I say that playing as melee in S3 and S4 arenas was infinitely easier than playing as ranged, you can take that to the bank.

Unless the other team had a druid, as a rogue you'd find no problems sticking to a ranged class in arenas, even with your target getting whatever form of support his partner could provide.

When was the last time someone complained about lack of LOS in STV arena back in the day? Was there one specific class that always won? The fact of the matter is, in 2v2 druid/XX was always winning, and although bloom rolling and regen scaling played a role, pillars were undoubtedly the culprit that forced most top mages to group with rogues, and forced most top hunters to group with healers (druids/priests).

With the talent combinations and new mechanics available at 80, ever melee class has more than enough tools to get in range -and stay in range- countless times. These abilities were not designed with LOS in mind and therefore it really shouldn't be a factor in pvp. It drags out games into pillar humping matches. I've been in games where pillars played such a large factor in the success of failure of the match that neither team was willing to abandon their own, and each time waited the other out for half an hour until one GIVES UP A HUGE STRATEGIC ADVANTAGE JUST OUT OF DESPERATION TO PLAY.

That should NEVER happen.


As for your assertion that in open combat, ranged classes outperform melee, that's extremely broad and, in being so, wrong.

It was wrong in BC
(shadowstep rogues were considered nearly counters to purebread kiting classes like frost mages and hunters of any spec in duels)

and it's wrong in wrath
(Death knights will no doubt dominate casters in regardless of the environment thanks to their many snare, death grip and blatantly and anti-caster abilities, warriors gain more mobility/CC avoidance in every tree, Mut/DirtyDeeds rogues (what i predict the top arena spec will be) lose out on ShS's former mobility but gain amazing 'sticking' talents like deadly brew / vile poisons mix which makes it almost impossible to shake a mut rogue, as well as still having the utility of prep's 2Xvanish 2Xsprint, a 1min CLOS and a 90sec blind. Ret paladins the ability to self cleanse snares, hof out of them or even bubble (and limit the movement speed of the target, while still retaining a passive movement bonus), Shaman, with the new grounding totem effect removing snares, ferals get a buffed version of shadowstep.



Although every now and then someone uses one of the rib-shaped projections out in durotar as a LOS pillar, it's faaaar more often than tnot that people just duel without any LOS at all.
When was the last time a rogue/warrior/death knight/enhancement sham/ret pally lost a duel there and whined about there being no LOS?

I could go on my lock, dot up a BM hunter and hide behind a pillar with siphon/weakness on his pet.
Then I'd run around so as to never be in LOS with him. How is that fair?
Maybe I can be wingclipped, but what about a druid instant spambot?

LOS as a mechanic isn't a bad idea, in fact, I suggested an alternative to pillars that involves elements of LOS.

However, LOS as currently implemented does nothing except delay games and REDUCE (Yes, reduce) the skillcap. I guarantee that if pillars were removed arena S3/S4, you wouldn't see 86 of the top 100 2v2 teams being druid / X. Many of these druids didn't even deserve to get gladiator, and a great deal are pvp rerolls from other healing classes that simply couldn't compete with what a druid brought to the table.

Bottom line is that I think your view that it is easier to keep melee at range than it is for melee to close the gap is an antiquated one. Melee in arena has either been specced for mobility or accompanied by support that augmented the melee mobility or limited the opponent's mobility.

Pillars are a design where you it is possible to literally be chased constantly while regenning to full and waiting out your cds. Turn on nameplates, they pivot left, you pivot left, they mount, you mount, etc.

Come back from a 3hour+ pillar camp game and tell me you think they are a smart addition to pvp.
Add in 'pits' for LOS so it cannot be done infinitely. Remove pillars.

reserved for my rant tomorrow afternoon....too busy cramming for account atm.