Hay guys, me and my arena partner, rogue, holy pally, have been pvping fro a while now, ew have 28 wins- 4 loss, but we have 1492 arena rating, we win 1 game we get 2-4 rating, if we lose we lose 15-24 rating points, im finding it impossible to get rating for gear no matter how hard i play, i was a 2.2k rating last season in BC, but can get above 1500 in WOTLK, im ashamed of myself, so ive been looking at a few forums , and they mention hidden rating, witch is different from team rating and person rating, can some1 plz help me to understand wat this is, and how i can get rating .


thanx u gusy for or ur help so far

Here's how I have seen it explained.

When the system started, everyone's hidden rating was reset, supposedly to 1500. The system then aggressively tries to match you vs. people of your own skill level to determine where your personal rating should be. So you start at 1500 TR, PR and HR, and it queues you vs a team at 1500. If you lose, the system decides you are probably not 1500, and looks for a team with around 1400 rating.

The way it is now, you are always queued according to the average hidden rating of all members on your team, and your hidden rating stays with you even if you change teams. I would imagine one of two things happened:
1) you lost your 4 games in the first 4 or 5 matches you played, so your hidden rating dropped quickly to the 1300ish mark, and you've been fighting your way back up playing against low rated teams or
2) either you or your teammate were in a low rated team before starting your new team. This made your team's hidden rating average pretty low. This caused you to begin playing vs lower team rated teams, meaning your team will gain low points each time. Once your hidden ratings catch up to your team rating at 1500, you should start seeing higher gains for winning matches, and your TR will improve.

I saw a blue post somewhere that said that on average, it should take at least 40 games for the system to move your hidden rating to your skill level. However, they said depending on your luck, it could take upwards of 100 games to actually get where you should be, meaning if you lose an unlucky game or two vs worse teams along the way, it hurts your progression pretty badly. I'm not sure if their estimation was based on you having a fresh 1500 hidden rating or if that's how the matching algorithm is supposed to work no matter how many games you have played.

The system levels off and you start gaining the same number of points for winning as you lose when losing a match when you start seeing around a 50% win rate. The idea is, that if you are a 1650 rated team(as an example,) then you will win 50% of your games vs other teams at 1650. I'd suspect right now that you lose a lot more for a loss than you gain, and this would be because for one of the reasons above, your hidden rating is lower than it should be. Put in another 20 or 30 matches and hopefully you'll see better results.

Tangentially, it has been verified that you have a different hidden rating for each arena level:2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. So if you're on a 5v5 team with friends just for fun but want to go for gladiator in 3v3, your 5v5 will not negatively impact your other team.

I hope that wall of text helps

from what I can tell there's a much larger weight given to previous arena experience. For example, my shaman has a lot of experience, during seasons 3 / 4 I played elemental on a top 10 5v5 team. This experience (...at least I think) translated into 20-28 point wins when I initially formed my new 3s team. We were something like 11-2 and at 1700 rating.

However, this initial experience based points started to diminish as other factors starting taking control, IE, matching us against other top 20 teams on the server, thus equalizing our rating to closer to 50 / 50 split.

Of course, this is still all speculation, and no one knows the complete algorithm for how teams are matched.

My advice to you would be to simply keep playing until the systems has a chance to determine your team's skill level.

here's what blizzard had to say about it...

* Team rating: Team rating is the primary measure of a team’s skill during the course of its existence. Titles and arena points are based on team rating.
* Personal rating: Personal rating only exists to ensure that a player has participated enough on a team to deserve the benefits of being on that team. When personal rating gets close enough to team rating, we judge it is likely the player deserves the benefits of the team.
* Matchmaking rating: This rating exists to ensure quality match-making despite players changing teams. In addition, the theoretical mathematical foundations of the new matchmaking system allows this rating to adapt much faster than team rating and personal rating, making the entire system more correct. In our measurements to date, this rating has been quite precise in predicting the outcomes of future matches.
* The matchmaking rating is separate for each bracket, and the matchmaking ratings do not interact between brackets in any way.
* Each bracket has a seperate matchmaking rating.
* Team rating currently converges towards the average of the matchmaking ratings on the team. Personal rating currently converges towards each individual’s matchmaking rating. As such, the team rating currently ends up in the middle of the personal ratings of each member of the team, usually around the average personal rating of the team. As mentioned above, we will be adjusting this to keep personal ratings in line with team ratings.

We recently introduced a new Arena matchmaking system with the intent of better matching up players against opponents of similar skill level, and to address potential abuses under the old system. We realize that many players have questions regarding the new system, and as such, we would like to provide more insight into the new matchmaking system.

* First and foremost, the primary goal of the new Arena matchmaking system is to match players against opponents of similar skill, regardless of your or your opponents’ team rating. This means that once an estimated skill level is determined, you will more likely be matched against other players of a similar skill level. Please note that the estimated skill level is constantly being evaluated and will adjust based on each team’s continual performance. Ratings that are won or lost also take into account skill level, so that you will not suffer a high penalty if you lose against a team that is much better than their actual team rating.

* Another important aspect of this new Arena matchmaking system is a smaller range of maximum rating that can be won or lost. Because of the differences between how the new system assigns rating points at the end of a match, we are still tweaking rating gain versus loss per match to improve the experience.

* If you were previously ranked with a high skill level and decide to create a new team, it should now be much easier to reach your team’s correct rating. This ensures that players will not feel penalized for moving between teams, and high ranked teams will not feel penalized for trying out new players without much risk to the team rating itself.

* Finally, the core and fundamental reason for the new Arena matchmaking system is for players to participate in Arena games that are fun. We feel that with this new system, higher ranked players will most likely find the challenges that they seek, newer players will no longer feel that Arenas are closed to them, and players will not feel as penalized for trying new things in the Arenas.

We like the way that matchmaking works in the new system and feel that it is working as expected. However, we acknowledge that there are some aspects of the way rating is calculated under the new system that could use some tweaking. As with all things, your enjoyment of the game and its systems are very important us, and this system was implemented in an effort to further promote the enjoyment of the Arenas. As always, we welcome your feedback and would constantly be striving to make this system even better.

I'm pretty sure they didn't set people's ratings based on previous season experience, and I know for a fact that they said you have separate hidden ratings for each bracket, so I don't think that your analysis is exactly right. What I do think happened is you did well in your first games. With no data in your history, each win made your hidden rating increase faster than your team rating jumped, so you were matched against higher rated teams than your team rating would have matched you against under the old system. When you won, you gained a lot of points since your team and personal ratings were lower than the team you were matched against based on hidden rating.

Here's a link to the info I mentioned before.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/11/1491042 ... m-faq.html
It includes a parse of one team's matchups too to give a tiny glimpse of what's going on behind the scenes.

you may be correct, Erk. There have been so many blue explanations I really don't know what to think at this point.