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Retribution Paladin Nerf Confirmed
October 16, 2008 by Zuggy
Yesterday’s retribution paladin discussion on the forums was further clarified this evening with the following nerfs being confirmed by ghostcrawler.
As I stated yesterday, we are happy with Ret’s PvE damage and sustatined damage in PvP, but were concerned that the burst damage in PvP could be too high. We discussed this for literally hours yesterday, which was certainly not the first time we have discussed the issue. Thus I hope these changes are not perceived as a knee-jerk reaction, but I am sure that will depend a great deal on which class you play.
Divine Storm — the damage was changed from Holy to Physical. As you know, Holy damage is almost never mitigated and this talent could pack a lot into a very short time. This is a nerf to the ability’s damage. This change is now active on Live.
Repentance — this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.
Art of War — now affects all damage done by Judgements, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm (instead of critical strike damage). Net dps should be about the same but less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13.
Righteous Vengeance — now applies a dot affect similar to Deep Wounds (instead of critical strike damage). This ends up being a significant buff to the ability to make up for the damage lost to Divine Storm, but is also less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13. EDIT: The dot will NOT break Repentance.
Glyph of Crusader Strike — now reduces mana cost (instead of increased damage on stunned targets.) We thought paladins could stack too much damage vs. stunned targets. This change will be made before Nov 13.
We also fixed a bug with Seal and Judgement of Light that could sometimes result in too much healing.
In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can’t do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter.
I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we’ve made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It’s a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we’ll be happy to back off some of the changes.
On the other hand, maybe we’ll see fewer BGs with 20 paladins on the opposing side and can get some reasonable feedback on all the other classes in the game.
EDIT: To clairfy the new dot will not break Repentance.
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Are you kidding me!? Ret Paladins have had a hard time when it comes to burst damage and not having the hard hitting crits “right out the gate” that having to “build” up our burst damage has caused us to get steamed rolled over and over again. We finally get a buff and because too many “OP” rogues and druids cry about not being able to infinitely stunklock and entangle us while they point and laugh, we get nerfed again. This is exactly why I started rolling another class and started gearing him to be my main! Thanks a bunch for taking the fun out of a class we really love, Blizz! Bravo!
On another note, I don’t believe for one minute that these nerfs won’t effect PVE. The only way I see these bad decisions not nerfing our PVE dps is by leaving PVE stats alone and ONLY modifying the damage output a talent does in PVP.
Unbelievable. And here I am thinking people in the game would actually start liking the idea of having a Ret Pally in the group when it came to PVP.
I can understand your frustrations, but do you honestly believe paladins are not currently broke?
I mean give me a break…you’ve got paladins wearing gear that is mediocre at best, who still take down a 12,000 hp, 400 resilience rogues within a 5 second hammer. This is nothing short of ridiculous.
Lower City Honored Gear + PVE blues geared people should have to put in a lot more effort than mashing 4 buttons to down full Brutal/Vengeful geared people. I’m thinking you’re mad because you can’t faceroll in pvp now, get used to it. There were plenty of good ret paladins out there before these overdone buffs, but that’s simply because they knew how to utilize the class to its fullest. As for you I’d have to say not.
The ret pallies aint anymore OP than Rogue or Enh. shammy, now that i finally started to like being ret :p But then again, i knew they would nerf us
Every1 knew this was coming. Ret pallies are still going to be a great pvp class because of the control and abilities they have. One thing i was looking forward to in wotlk was having longer drawn out fights that show skill and not stun and get a 5 second burst combo off that can take players in twice their gear. The nerf’s are not all that bad…you have the same DPS in raids which pallys are still toping currently. This is definately not a reason to start rolling other toons.
Yea, I was kinda pissed when I saw a green paladin kill my full vengeful geared warlock in seconds without me even having a chance to put a dot or throw some sand in their eyes… like the whole Bubble stun, “Dragon ball z” lookin shit is way to OP… and im happy that blizz is doing something to fix this issue to have a fair n balanced game
I got a priest with ~490 res and 12k+ hp, and I get taken down by 1 retri pala from 100% to 61% just in 1 second he is near me, also its not a pala that is wearing full t6 or anything its just some freaking s2/skillherald. That doesnt seem fair to me at all, and thats even when my rogue is trying to lock him down. Today played arena and 2v2 consists of 99% retri palas with different partners, no more druid wars or any other combos just palas. I wouldnt mind “NERF TO THE GROUND” actually.
Hey zuggy. Think you can update the arena strats to fit with the lastest patch soon? Yeah i agree ret pallies are too hard to handle atm. I 2v2 with a disc priest who has full s3/4 and a retadin in s2/3 pve gear can bring him down in seconds. I can’t do much to help him cept disarming or trying to stun them. Well they have that stun immunity thing so its pretty useless…
I may start working on a few arena strats soon…though I’m a little apprhensive to make a lot of guide updates simply because they will all have to be written again once the expansion releases.
I put a lot of work into all of my strategy guides, and I really don’t want to do complete re-writes on old strategies that will likely be obsolete when WotLK releases. Once the expansion goes live I’ll be updating all of my guides to reflect new spells, abilities, and strategy changes.
I’m a ret pally. I do think our pvp burst is a little high atm, but these nerfs WILL affect my pve dmg considerably, unless blizz makes that DoT really hurt. But i don’t think it will.
Nerf us then go around and buff everyone else back up. Makes sense.
These nerfs dont seem too bad tbh, we get slightly less burst, but that is in order now.. Now paladins will actually have to make use of other unknown buttons such as Hand of Sacrifice, Flash of Lights from Art of War and other such things – I think this is alright, as we are pretty pathetically op now – Algorath, Scarshield Legion-EU
rogues cheap shot 5 secs kidney shot 5 secs then blind 5 secs vanish and start all over again is that fair? locks have been op since god knows when druids do i have to say anymore arena teams 90% DRUIDS WARRIORS but they wernt fixed warrior ms hs wirlwind all instant now everybody is crying, burst damage is pvp you take away burst damage from retribution there is no point in having that talent tree.
ret pallys have always been underpowered compared to other dps classes, i think we FINALY got put on par with everyone else!… your not suposed to like it when ret pallys have a chance where we are not doted and chain feared or kidney shot and stuned locked with not one chance to swing… o and if your 1 on 1 in brutal/vengful gear and you got rocked by a green paladin you suck
gilneas
Don’t take this the wrong way, but you both are just delusional. If you can’t see that 3.0.2 retribution paladins are imbalanced then you’ve clearly got a flawed misconception of the game.
There’s no denying the ret build needed some improvements, but the changes made have been excessive in every sense of the word.
Don’t even think this nerf is ridiculous you ret pallies im a rogue and our new pvp 51 is so hard to get off shadowdance while yall can get out of stuns and blessing of freedom how can i use it on you? I was recently in arena and saw a paladin with liek 5% hp so i came up to him and cheapshotted him he got out of it turned around and hit me with some BS that did 4k dmg….this happened in about 2 secs. Divine storm is just mash the button and there u go they are dead. Don’t whine~
Until new ret pallies came along I’ve never seen a 3-dps all of the same class be successful in higher ratings. Ret pallies proved me wrong of course. I’m sorry, but a burst dpser like that SHOULD NOT be allowed to heal with almost the same mana efficiency as their holy counterpart. Ret paladins are OP, end of discussion. Sorry you can’t faceroll anymore also you have stun immunity, bubble and a trinket I don’t see why you have trouble breaking rogue stuns unless you spam them on every cheapshot like a moron.
Look, I’m a ret pally also, but even I know that this was well on its to us after 5 minutes of game play following the patch. I know that as much as this nerf is going to suck, its needed and deep down inside you know it is to.
Look at the bright side, we are still way better then what we were before the patch.
im not talking about stun lock on a paladin im talking about it in gerneral i have an ench sham as well and i get stun locked to death with out a hit on a rogue that is not fair and not balanced why are resto druids aloud to change to bear form in resto spec and melle damage is 60% less because of armor is that balanced i did an arena 3vs3 we killed 2 of the oposing team and one on my team died so it was 2 vs1 we had to res our team mate back to kill him yeh thats fair.
Oh no Steth, rogues can be beaten by another class, my heart bleeds for you. Strangely enough you can lock down any class you want as well, also hammer and divine are spells, Clos can take care of that very easily which might i add is also incredibly imba but i dont see them nerfing that much (an extra 30 seconds on clos oh noes).
Paladins have had it crap for a very long time, it’s about time they got some love.
I’ll reiterate what I’ve been discussing with others on the WoW forums. The single reason that Ret Pallies are OP is that because without your trinket cooldown up, 95% of the time, you will die while under a 5 second stun. The game should not be based on a trinket cooldown, it’s a simple as that. Rogues are built around stuns. If you aren’t gimped on armor/resil, you can usually survive their initial opener, at least enough to run away. Even though my druid only has 250 resil, I almost never die to a rogue multi-stun, unless the rogue is S4 geared.
To restate – the predominant reason Ret Pallies are overpowered at this point is because they can, and will kill you if your trinket is down. The game should NOT be based on that single cooldown.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He gets the picture.
I have a s2/skillherald pala as my alt and Ive had a lil play on him since the patch… I cant believe how easy is is now… you get near someone judge/divine storm and whatever and by then your ready to 35% HoW instant cast 3k+ crit someone… HoW is so stupid now I just have it bound to the mouse and spam it ^^. I used to like playing when it actually required some thought and I actually had to heal and think about my mana… now I dont even have to bubble. They were definately in need of a damage buff but they buffed far to many aspects at once imo.
A well need nerf.
Last night lost bout 150 rating and yes 17 out of the 19 games we qued were ret pally / “X” .
Majority of them went like this (Mut rogue disc priest is our comp both 2k+ geared 400 res etc)
*pally runs in* hits me (priest) down to 50% in the first two seconds (thats like 7k or more dmg with my shield up)
rogue opens on the pally, pally removes stun, repentance on me, wings and drop my rogue in the next 3-4 seconds. thats like….6kdps?
I think purely the fact that useing a 2hander and plate While being able to bubble AND heal while STILL being able to top dmg in bg’s and arenas by a fairly significant amount. Warriors can neither heal nor give themselves or another immunity, paladins shouldnt out-dps warriors and rogues both of whom are far squishier AND easier to cc…
you disagree? perhaps rolling your face on the keyboard has damaged your brain.
Retribution paladins have been shafted sense the release of the game, what’s more, retribution paladins are balanced for 80, not 70. Everyone’s dps will start to clime when they start getting their new skills. A lot of a retribution paladin’s dps comes from skills learned in the ret tree, and what’s more they have no ranks. Between 70 and 80 retribution paladins will only receive three skills, and all of those are judgments. What retribution paladins are worried about is the fact that blizzard hasn’t given us a chance in hell for years and years, and now that we are actually viable, we are afraid blizzard will just nerf us like they’ve done a hundred times. Blizzard has this way of giving power and then taking it away. We aren’t op’d, my retribution paladin is in full t6 gear and i still get taken down by locks, rogues mages. We are looked on as op’d because people are pissed that blizzard actually did something right with our class, now people can’t say .”loladin” or “noobadin”.
I’ve heard comments about a trinket cool down. That’s an excuse. Rogues for years have been able to paralyze you for one minute. Warlocks can chain fear, over and over. Mages can free you in place, druids can hold you down. what’s the difference between a chain fear, roots, freezing someone in place and stunning them for one minute? There is none. there are many classes out there that are far over powered than a retribution paladin.
I AM SO SICK OF THIS DENIAL!!! Ret paladins are OP atm, yes I’m aware they’re balanced at 80, but no other players can have ANY fucking fun when the ret paladin can bind every goddamn key as divine storm and LITERALLY face roll until you’re dead. GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES, you think you’re fucking neglected how about the Shadow priests?! How about every other race that’s not human or undead atm?! OH MY FUCKING god I never curse this much, but your ignorance is too much to handle! What happens when you get low YOU CLICK bubble then heal yourself to full with ALMOST the same mana efficiency as your holy counterparts. YOU ARE A DPS class, but there’s a goddamn limit. NO ROGUE can stunlock someone 100-0 unless they heavily outgear them even with improvements to mutilate and ALL classes nobody can put out this kind of burst. You also think it’s fair that a SKILLED and GEARED player can’t take out a fucking INCREDIBAD scrub just because he/she is completely invulnerable, has AMAZING heals that shouldn’t even be part of their tree and still has the mana to beat you down?! I’ll say it one last time for you ignoramuses, “GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES!!! DON’T GIVE US ANYMORE QQ ABOUT BEING NEGLECTED YOUR BURST IS MUCH TOO HIGH, YOUR HEALS SHOULDN’T BE THE WAY THEY ARE AND GEAR SHOULD PLAY A ROLE IN WoW TO A CERTAIN EXTENT!!!
^lolrage =) <3 S-Scythe
Anyway, Weber, the point I was trying to make is that a paladin in literally a mix of greens and blues is able to kill a S4 geared whatever if their trinket is down. I’m not joking, I’ve seen it happen multiple times. Of course a rogue can do a 100-0 stunlock if the have way better gear. Of course, any class (for the most part), will stomp on another if they heavily outgear them.
Fact is, the trinket “excuse” is not an excuse at all. There remains no class in the game that in bad, bad gear is able to 5 second 1-shot any class.
And please, spare me your “Ret pallies have always sucked, now they just get their revenge, blah, blah, blah”. If you haven’t noticed, 90% of pallies in BG’s are ret. 90% of those ret pallies have terrible gear. 90% of the time, those pallies are far and away number one-however many there are in damage. It doesn’t bother me that the heavily geared of them smash me. That’s fine. It’s when the crappy 8k health 50 resilience one runs in and one shots me because my trinket is down that I get pissed.
I for one am just looking at the bright side of all of this. Blizzard is trying to balance the game, and if they see us OP then we can get tuned down a bit.
If our damage sucks and I mean literally unplayable then I think we should complain. And If we complain enough about how our damage sucks blizzard will probably undo the nerf, or make it less heavy.
I am just hoping that they won’t nerf us down too bad.
That felt good…
Has anyone clarified if the new Righteous Vengeance DoT is refresh, stacks, or resets when another crit occurs? For example, if judgement crits, of course u can’t stack that, cause even with talents you can’t judge again for 8 seconds. But if u crit again during that DoT with Divine Storm, does it have a separate DoT? Or does it just refresh your last DoT of the Judgement crit, replacing it with a guaranteed less heavy damage DoT? If Bliz has any concern of this nerf NOT destroying our PvE dps and newfound viability in Arena, then it needs to be 2 separate DoTs, which I’ve searched around and no one has stated. To word it a slightly different way, just to be clear what I’m asking…. Do we get two separate DoT’s from Judgement crits and Divine Storm crits, that tick separately, to compensate for the ‘bursty’ crit damage that we are losing from the two spells hitting for less combined damage now? If so, I don’t see any reason for concern for PvE damage, and as for PvP, it will have newfound advantages, and not only that, it would possibly stop all the fuss about not being able to LoL at Ret pallies anymore. For example, you will actually end up doing more damage over time to PvP’ers who snare and put some distance between you and them when freedom is unavailable, you will be able to prevent rogues from restealthing and going thru the ’stunlock’ cycle if they have no cloak of shadows, and the actual damage done will be the same, only it will be able to be healed through much more easily. That is, of course, unless the DoT’s are going to be made dispellable, which wouldn’t surprise me really. I don’t see why people are focusing their hate on the ‘new’ ret pally in the first place when there are SO many classes that can be ‘OP’ now themselves if played to the full potential of their new abilities. I won’t even bother to go down the list, because I’d rather not get off subject.
If pals are so op so tell me why, in last 3v3 tournament team with paladins didnt even get to top 5? Ofc rogue, mage, druid won everything. Paladins are still easy t o kill but for pro not for guys like you.
because it was patch 2.4.3 on the tournament server, not 3.0.2.
just gotta laugh at blizzard!! they did it again… first we finally get a buff so we can do decent dmg in pve/pvp and when ppl starts to cry, they nerf us to the bones… some ppl are just so stupid! wake up!!! we are running around with WOTLK, ppl gotta be more patient and realize that this actually isnt OP… u all remember when we got the TBC talents.. that was also a buff in dmg/healing… but unfortiunatly it is too late… whiners just ruined my class and im pretty sure that i will lvl my lvl 65 warrior like hell now so i actually can enjoy playing WoW…
Can anyone confirm if the Divine Storm and the Judgement DoT stack with each other? Or if they just overwrite each other when a crit occurs? Or are they even two separate DoT’s? It would be nice to know, as this will be the big determining factor in whether or not this nerf will affect our sustained damage in PvE. I’m fine with this nerf if this is the case, and in fact they are TWO separate DoT’s, I don’t mind having a DoT for PvP. It would even have it’s advantages if the DoT is non-dispellable.
I’m done with this thread. Half the posts are relevant from paladins who admit their class has a fault and the other half is by Ret pallies who feel so “oppressed” that they see these ridiculous buffs are the only way to have the game be. Hate to be a troll on a site I post on, but I’ll be laughing when ret pallies cry about losing to every other class because they never bothered to learn anything outside of a Divine Storm spam. Washed my hands of this thread so let complaints and flames at me begin. Ready, set
/QQ
Maybe blizz should make ret pally’s talents more dependent on gears .. so that ret pallies in greens can’t easily take out other classes in much better gears. Otherwise, after the nerfs the problem might still exist (but reversed) where ret pallies in much better gears can’t take out other classes in greens :D .. just a thought :P
I am am little paladin when I am in trouble I just trigger my bubble and heal myself. This was like before the latest patch. Nowdays this is almost the same just instead of healing he kills everyone all over him and after the fight he has more mana than before. Me smash u bubble and then u smash me die. :P I luv paladins lets everyone create a paladin and forget about the other classes, they are useless anyways. Palapower FTW!!!!!!!
ok ! GUYS! i play a ret pally in arena and arena ONLY!!! im a 4/5 Brutal pally with the Season 4 Brutal sword! and i got this with arena 2 vs 2 ! This is not a showoff just a fact
My name is Dlash on the realm Khadgar
So BELIEVE me i have played ret through the worst time ever! blizzard dealt us suck a shhity hand in BC before this recent patch and i still hate them for leaving ret in such a mess for so long!!!! and all ret pallies i know you feel me when i say that! In season 3 and season 4 i reached a point in arena were there was literally NOTHING! i could have done to win!but just stand around and hope for a win! or wait for them to slip up! or throw in some rare well time Command/justice seal twists to help me out! (pro pally tip)
Anyways! but that said i also have to admit! This time they have given us TOOO MUCHH!!!!! i can honest tell you if arena was not laggy as hell right now i would have gotten a 2500 rating in arena in my sleep with this current patch! i can steam roll almost any class so fast! eVEN! with all my expereince in ret! i still cant keep track of things and the damage thats going on! I can barely work out a strategy cause people are dropping like flies. I one hit people over and over and over again im like you know what ! from a PRO GAMER’s point of view ! this shhit just aignt right
with all my glorious gear im afraid to go up against another ret pally because i know how unstable we are now! its like! hes coming hes coming hes BOOOOOM! wtf happened? i know its not going to take any skill for that other ret pally to kill me! it basically who can throw the best stun first.
I am happy for this nerf personally also because there are a rare breed of paladins that rep ret pallies with pride while being laughed at and spit on before this patch! and now it hurts my heart when i see some SCRUB RET PALLY ! SOME STUPID TABLE TURNER!! BALL POINT CLICKER! CHARACTER TAB OPENER TRINKLETER! ZERO HOTKEYER! going into arena and bgs and owning with no talent!
I saw this nerf coming! and i am happy ! Blizzard should allow their mistakes of neglecting paladins before force them to Spoil pallies now!
Blizzard ! i understand and respect this new nerf ! just dont leave us hanging as you did before! . Because what u did to us before was UNACCEPTABLE! . i consider my self a true ret pally ! because its all i play and care for ! when i hop on my pally i get a smile on my face like no other!
We did deserve a buff! but this is too much!
NOW! dont take our moves away!! but its just that right now !! the volume on the ret paladins are WAYYYYY!!! TO HIGH!! just taking down some and things will be alright! dont let easy mode scrub ret pallies make you feel bad about doing what right blizzard ! ask any REAL PVP ! ret pally! ill even name a few and you talk to them your self and see. these paladins and many more including myself pushed this class to the limit! And i think our advice and inside is more valuable than any other scub who just rocks season1-2 ret gear spamming away at DS and CS and Hammer with nOOOO skill! to tell you how little they know about ret! most pallies are so joy happy with this new patch they still havent even learnt that FREEDOM takes away a STUN! because thats how little they have to try ! because they are so OP people dont even get time to stun them
Cheak some of these real ret pallies out! We kept ret strong ! when it was not! dont spit on our faces and have nubs walking around doing just as much dps as us and having our gear with no skill….. Do the nerf! Just dont leave us as bad as we were before! I am not worried about ANYTHING! because i know that if blizzard gives me anything better than what they did before ill be able to put it to good use! and to be honest the new moves are just good enough! just take out some of the damage and mana regen!
When i heal my mana bar out dry to 2%! and i put seal of wisdom on and judge with mana and do divine storm! i go from 3% mana to 40% man in 1 swing! that ! IS OPPPPPPPPP.
When i am at 2% health and put light up and judge with light and go from 2% heal the 30 % health in 1 swing ! THAT IS OPPPPPPPPPPPPP
then a rogue has me at 10 % and he has 90% and i freedom his kidney and stun and DS and SOV him and kill im in 3 secs THAT IS OPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!
right now we are OPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP PERIOD!!!
Dlash (me) server Khadgar
Palyrix (friend) > server Khadgar
Mobywanz > eu server (armory him)
Karig > server khadgar
Nick > US server
ZUGGY!! i agree with you 200% armory me out too if you want too! this is way too OPP your comment is right this new ret pally buff if EXACTLY WHAT THIS GAME IS NOT! SUPPOSE TO REPRESENT OR TOLERATE! just like when blizzard sat on MACE STUN or warriors for FOREVER!…..
this new ret buff is sucking the fun out of the game ! i dont even want to get my brutal shoulder cause im feeling like i wont even be working for it !
i dont mind the nerf just wanna make sure it is fair FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIRRRRRRRRRR BLIZZARD ……
For those of you whom think Ret is NOT currently OP:
Seriously? I mean… seriuosly?
My Pally was my very very first character. I love Pallys. I went ret because I’d heard now much easier it was to lvl a ret pally (remember this was my first toon ever… i was a huge newb). As I leveled him, i began to realize that pallys didn’t really own as dps’ers. I got worked like no other in almost every level bracket of PvP. So, I gave up at level 64. I couldn’t take rolling a toon that sucked, and definitely couldn’t take being laughed at when trying to get into a grp as ret. No one thought I had any business rolling on damage gear. Everyone thought I should have been rolling on healing gear. I since went on to level a slew of other toons including two 49 twinks and a 70 resto shaman.
After hearing about how superbly powerful ret had become, i hopped back on my ancient ret pally, dusted him off and threw his talent points into the ret tree. To say the very least, I was amazed. Due to the amount of damage output I now had, i could literally kill 4-6 mobs at my level simultaneously. At lvl 69 I massacred a s2 hunter and rouge in an AV… without using my god-buble….
(The Important Part>>>)
The thing is, anyone who plays ret doesn’t want to see this nerf take place. The Reason?? It’s not only because you want to stay OP, but also because you’ve been the class that everyone clowned on for the longest time. This recent buff was like a pay back to all other classes that whopped us in BG’s. This includes me. Frankly, ret needed an improvement.
Remember the days when Pallys were the alliance’s pride and joy? When the Horde would have given ANYTHING to have us pallys in their raids? I truly hope that Blizz doesn’t $hit on Ret again. ARTHAS was a Ret Pally!! Pallys are supposed to be the backbone of the Alliance’s Army (and horde too now i guess). Please Please Blizz, don’t fuk over ret again. It’s high time we ret pallys had it good for a patch or two.
Now, To All of You Whom qq about Ret being currently OP:
STFU, pansies. A few weeks of ass whoopins serves you right. It feels damn good to laugh in a s4 rouge’s face when my lvl 69 pally rocks your fukin socks off. We’ve been the laughing stock of arena and raids FOREVER!!!! Finally, you can’t beat us black and blue and you qq qq qq qq qq like the hoe’s you really are. Get over yourself. I just laugh my ass off when i think of how butt-hurt you all get because Ret Pallys are FINALLY a force to be reckoned with. Tell you what, you keep q-ing up for BG’s and sit there pouting like a baby and I’ll pound your face for the next few weeks while we still have it good.
For the few of you that have succeeded as Ret before the patch, I SALUTE YOU! It must have been hard.
Now, Here’s The Truth Of It All:
Ret isn’t as OP as everyone is making it out to be. The truth is, you aren’t used to fighting a lot of Ret Pallys cause their a rare breed, and, now that they’re crawling out of the freaking woodwork, you don’t know how to handle them. If you gave it enough time, gamers would learn how to deal with and adjust to the burst that we have, which isn’t nearly as powerful than a 2H enhancement shaman’s burst. (trust me, i have a 70 shaman. he was enhancement b4 he was resto. anything without 150resil and 9K health was a potential victim of a 1-shot if i was rocking my 2H wep and had a nice WF crit)
To add to the truth, Love ret while you can. If they’re bringing it back down to where is once was, it will suck all over again. I hear a lot of things but I don’t believe a one of them. How the HELL is a DoT going to help us?? Oh, you mean when there’s a lot of mobs around… riiiight. You mean that the DoT wil be better if it’s effecting a lot of targets instead of just one!?! Right, you mean to tell me the DoT will help a lot when the mages and locks destroy the numerous mobs in a few seconds? That DoT had better be one powerful mofo.
Glyph of crusader strike….. …… ….. thanks? for wasting my gold?? what? Are you serious? The only way we can really do heavy burst is my stunning our target… that’s just terrible. very bad replacement. it should extend the stun duration or something. What an unthought-out solution.
Luckily, i have a 70 resto shaman to fall back on if Ret goes too far down hill. I’m optimistic that Blizz will do a good job of fixing the problems they need to fix with Ret. God love you all and Game On! :D
Guessur/Striffe
^^^^^^^^ speechless…. you are just right about everything…. =)
^^^^^^ ty good sir ;D
Guessur has a good point, Retadins have been so fundamentally changed that a lot of people don’t know how to handle them. I have guildies of all different classes that couldn’t beat me in the first 2-3 duels. After that tho they figured shit out. They adjusted their strategies and now have a decent chance of beating my pally. Learn baby learn!
If Blizz can take a couple hours to think on how to nerf us back down, the least other players can do is take twenty minutes to figure out how to play their class against a ret pally.
Final Thought. NERF THE GODDAMN DRUIDS! Every class I play has a tough time with restos. Pally, Shaman, Rogue… give me a break. Kiting around 7 or less enemy players in BGs without breaking a sweat staying at full health and mana is a joke.
I feel that Ret pallies have been a tad OP since the patch. I myself am a Ret pally and i also like when i hear other classes like rogues, and shamans for instance cry that Ret is OP. Have you actually stopped to think about what other classes can do to us? Priests, just mana burn us till were OOM then we will die. Locks, just keep spam fearing and DoTing us..we will die. Shamans, i really dont know what to say, i dueled a shaman teh other day and everytime i did an attack or cast a spell his totems would ground it. Thats OP if you ask me, its to a point where i ijust stop fighting and stand in the middle of the totems and let myself die. Have ANY been hit with Bladstorm? that shit is vicious, that does just as much damage as our Divine Storm. Thats a tad OP. Warriors being able to dual wield 2handers is WTFOP, how can anyone sit around and say that ret is OP when theres warriors running around ripping faces off with 2 2handers? I think its kind of ironic…before patch everyone said, ” Ret LOL”, now that we can unscrew your head and shit down your neck you cry”OP OP!!” i say stfu and let our retadins have our short days of glory in WoW. Also, for all dumb people, our talents are not meant for lvl 70, there meant to be balanced at lvl 80. If we get nerfed now, at lvl 80 we will be hitting for like 5k maybe. While everyone else will be hitting for around what 10-12k?
Frankly i hate when this is done. I am betting we will get put to the bottom of the table once your done with us, I really dont see the point in changing Righteous Vengeance that is just stupid, We are and always have been ment to be burst damage and blizzard has never made a good physical dot in the game, Its like warrior dot it is totally useless unless it gives a bonus by having and why nerf the glyph we only have 2 decent glyphs in the game for retri.
I dont think retri pallys are that op atm you really dont need to change vengeance no one will take it when you do because everyone knows it will be a waste of points, If you need to nerf anyone nerf mages they can down us in a second, paladins have no chance against Mages, Rogues(That know there cds), Warlocks, Hunters and Arms warriors what can do more then 2k a second for 6 secs and cant be stopped. The only defence we have against these are a trinket and a shield, We only have one chance to keep someone still and no slows and hand of freedom is easily dispelled or they can wait a few seconds and they can kite untill we die.
I think its stupid you pick on paladin, you did nothing for us when no one was retri because we had really bad damage and it was all about luck, let me ask you if we cannot burst damage how do we kill a ranger? are stun will be trinketted out instantly and we will be kited till death it happens all the time to me now unless i have my cooldowns, as for rogues they can stun lock till death if we dont have a 5 minute cooldown up.
The reason so many complaining about paladin is because we can finally pvp and have a place for pve where as we had no place before and were laughted at if you tried to raid or even join a pvp raid, the reason you see so many people in pvp with paladin is because we can finally play retri which people have been gathering gear for but which was totally hopeless at any combat, do you really think that soon as people noticed damage of paladin they made a 70 thats why you see loads in pvp, no its because they already had paladins but they never specced retri because there was no damage in it which is sad seeing as all other classes had good damage spec’s but paladin’s.
The main reasons i am posting this is because there are plenty of op classes atm which i know wont be looked at, i personally have a 70 Paladin, 70 Warlock, 70 Druid, 70 Shaman, 70 Rogue, 70 Warrior and everyone of my characters gets totally destroyed against Mages that can kite all day and have a 3 second cd on a spell i have been crit over 2k. I think changing Righteous Vengeance will be a misstake, the only class that is useful with dots is a lock no other class wants them compared to what we have now, it will not help with dps because 90% of time raiding you are taking down trash which are lots of short fights where burst comes in handy.
Why cant paladins be left near the top of dps chart in raids? is it not about time we got a brake seeing as we have been very very underpowered spec for a long time now, It is not like we are even top today i raided with a pug that had 2 paladins me epic some lowish pvp stuff and one highend pve gear and we were beat on the dps meters by a mage with much lower gear and a arms warrior that was using s1 / s2 gear.
Basicaly every1 who fancy the retribution paladin is telling that the only way to withstand in PVP as a ret pally is to have a 1.8k dps? To take down peolpe running in end game pvp gear within 5 secs? If this satisfies you guys rolling a paladin and hunger for revenge, shall be it. I don’t mind it all. Personaly I don’t like the paladin hes allways been the good guy among the all other chars, I like evil characters. The only thing that can fuckk my mind up is when I am trying to organize something in BG a paladin yells me that STFU look at your damage done. In AB where u have to defend not only stand in the front line and ,,dps,, is clearly telling me that hes a noobcake thinking his great dps will make a bg win and will make him the best class of ever just because blizzard had not much time to think over char balance in pvp and gave them nice burst damage. Anyways the game balance will be allways not satisfiing all characters, better get use to it, most of the players can not even imagine how does this work and arguing all over it. I personaly like to encounter players who have higher pvp skills than me, to beat them makes me happy and makes me to enjoy the game, if I wan’t to oneshot finish off someone I go to westfall and gank everyone who dares to hit me. I am pretty sure your happy times will be over, you will be able to kill 2 at once instead of 5 don’t worry, holy and protection trees are already buffed well retribution will follow I guess. I am still thinking pallys belongs to alliance shamans to horde, it is a shame blizzard changed it :(
PS: How can a gnome warrior have same AP as a tauren this is what I would like to have solved :P
Allright folks this is what i come to everyday when i log on and see my trade channel. Yes thats right all you silly gnomes QQing about the nerf and all that i am trully tired from it. Let me lay out some things too you. I have played Ret since i started to play wow about 3 years ago. I have been shit out pissed on kicked and all that good stuff because apparently Ret just didnt exist in this game, if u roll a paly it was a must you had to heal or tank. I clearly understand the mechanics of this game and of my class also my abilities to play my class to the full of its potential. I might aggree about the nerf being somewhat helpful in up comming patch so all you scrubs that blame you cant hit 2k rating because some welfare pally rocked ur world back to the 3rd world country its just simply the lack of youre own skill so go QQ and practise on dummys some more.
But thats not why i am writing this wall of text so you can QQ about it more. The reason for this is that everyone had their talents and abilities changed some where minor and some major changes were done to classes. My biggest concern as it allways been is druids and locks. I can care less about rogues with their stun and invisibility to even worry about that because their OP in my mind but so as locks a those droods with infinate mana. Now can you say OP?!?!?!?
Ok back on topic about locks specially with thier malee ability to swipe anyone of their feet if chain fears and DoTs werent enough. But seriously why everyone says that is so hard to kill a paly…its was actually the same before the patch i would say. When you faced off any paly in arena what were youre strat on killing him? CC,CC,CC and can i say CC untill he bubbles and then its GG there is no way any paly across the BG’s that can take 15k+ dmg from malee/range and survive even healing him self that means he cant be doing enough dmg to even gain health/mana back. And i have seen mages and locks pull out 10-12k dmg by clicking 2 keys not too say the least but enhance is just as OP as pallys in this current state. Sure they might not have a way of stopping dmg by via bubble but so what they can still heal them selfs to full and burst you into the grown before you can even hit any CC key same applies to rogues and locks.
Let me wrap this up in conclusion pallys shouldnt be looked at like the OP GoD’s mode class. Because you gona have those 2k+ rated Warrior Drood rolling their face on you any day and i dont care what anyone says. Even before the nerf it all came down to skill and not rolling youre face on keyboard and all of those S4 scrubs that got rolled by welfare paladins deserve it for all the QQ you guys brough on US!
IN THE END WE STILL WIN!
Me again:
At first I was taking this whole nerf to Ret thing okay – ya know, trying to be mature about it and reasonable in my assumptions. The more and more I think about it, the more and more i become festered by this nerf, of which there has been at least a half dozen this bad or worse.
Here’s what’s been festering me:
We rock ass now, right? No one, that isn’t on the delivering end of this new ass rocking ability, likes it at all so they bitch a fit SO huge you’d think they had a pitchfork shoved up their virgin ass. I don’t mind getting frowned at as I’m standing over a dead corpse of a player I’ve just undone, but what really really ticks my ass off is how fukin SWIFT Blizz was to nerf us back down (it took them less than three days to announce their proposed nerf to us Ret players)… without good thought or reasonable adjustments to the tree. The changes just aren’t decent changes… period. They’re unthough-out.
Blizz Programmer: “Well, we have a lot of pissed mages, priests and rouges. Let’s just nerf them Retadins. I don’t want to get off my fat ass and think of a cool and original change… so… let’s just take half their burst and give them a little mana back instead. Man, I can’t wait to wail on my light-switch sized chud tonight. Bluh Bluh Bluh, I’m a fat, unoriginal tool.”
After you’ve calmed down and are no longer laughing (i was laughing out loud IRL as I was writing that, hahaha), here’s a few things to consider:
Why is their a ret tree? Wait, let me ask a better question: of all nine (9) classes in the game, which of them, besides Paladins, have a useless tree? As I think about this question myself, I can only respond with maybe the Arcane Spec for Mages BUT only because the other two talent trees they have at their disposal are totally fukin B to-da A. Let me clarify that I DO NOT think that Arcane is a shitty spec; it’s just that you don’t see Arcane very often. In addition to that, all three Trees that Mages have to chose from are for only ONE THING… DPS DPS DPS and a little CC here and there, where Paladins three trees are VASTLY different from one another.
I can’t think of any others. Can you? I’m not picking a fight. I’m down to hear what you think if you have any others.
This leads us to ponder the original question, what’s the freaking deal with the Ret tree? Better yet, why the hell are you TEASING us Ret Pallys all the damn time? You make us BA and viable in PvP and PvE and then nerf our ass as soon as ppl start to bitch about how great we’ve become.
Again, I’m pissed at how quick Blizz was to nerf Ret…. just cause some butt-hurt PvP-ers had their pride chipped at. We’ve had our pride chunked away at for years and years, and no one can disagree with me about that. They throw us a bone and you cry your widdle eyes out cause you’s not used to gettin’ a hurtin’ put on you, boo frickedy hoo.
I will say this shortly and quickly and I won’t spend much time going over this because I think it’s been adequately stated in above posts by Frozencpu and OldPaladin: There are a fuking a-ton of OP classes that need to be nerffed. A class with FAR MORE burst than we have (ours is just a controlled burst). A class that is unkillable for as long as they feel like being unkillable if played by a decent player. A class that can stun you indefinitely until you are terminated. A class that can kite far beyond most players and teams abilities to catch them before they meet their maker. It is these classes that are butt-hurt. It is these classes that are bitching like a hoe’s on the rag. It is these classes that are in need of a reasonable nerf. Fuk, make thier nerf unreasonable (like all of ours have been) and see how they like it for a change.
God Love you and Game On!
Guessur/Striffe/Many twinks
P.S. I’m still chuckling inside about the Blizz Programmer, lol.
Yes i believe Rets are OP, in their own way but what class isnt, their damage is just WOW atm yes but i think were the real problem lies is that they can bubble and just burn ya down. leave them with the dps they have, hell my rogue and spriest can put out imense damage as well we just dont have an easy button to keep us from dying while doing so. Now that i think of it now hell let them keep there bubble dps and let mages burn you down with 6k bolts while iceblocked or hell casting a mindblast and SW:D with my 90% reduced dmg with des. on my spriest. Hell a rogue hittin you for a certain amount of time while he is vanished could be fun. yeah rogues have CoS ,priest have their bubble(they can still be stunned and only absorbs liltle damage) druids have bear, they cant heal in this form eff. cough cough bubble heal, but these classes also wear cloth/leather not plate. just cause you guys got buffed doesn’t make you special your still a ret-tard. if you dont want to be laughed at earn it like Dlash did not by rolling your head on keyboard while bubbled.
I have an easier fix to ret paladins. Let them keep their burst, that’s fine, but when they bubble, they cannot use any abilites on any targets outside of their bubble. (QQ: but then holy paladins lose survivability in PVE. Answer: Deep in the holy tree, give them an ability to let them heal friendly targets from within the bubble.)
Divine shield is an impenetrable bubble, fine, that means that nothing should be able to enter or leave the bubble. I don’t care that paladins have almost as much burst and CC as a rogue or any other class in PVP, all I care about is the fact that they are completely immune from everything for more than enough time than it takes to kill their target.
With all the QQ about rogues’ cloak of shadows, which clears nonphysical debuffs and gives 90% resist to magic effects for a whopping 3 seconds, why hasn’t Blizzard reexamined the 12 second immunity with almost no drawback that paladins have?
The reason we got bubble is because holy has almost no instant heals so they need it but i would sacrifice maybe a 50% reduction in damage done while in bubble or something to go back to ptr damage but i dont see needed at all because in the end all range and healing classes can kill us all you need is a pvp trinket since we only have one stun, and are shield has a 5 minute cooldown so only works for one person every 5 minutes and a rogue can just hide while this on and a priest can debuff it and locks can hit us through it with chaos bolt and any healing class will spam heal faster then can dps unless full crits but that small chance that will happen, The only classes really effected by bubble are warriors, warlocks and hunters because rogues have vanish, mage have iceblock, priest have dispel and other classes have heals, Every class is ment to be able to beat other classes but people seem to be only happy when a class that had nothing stays that way. Its like mages no one trys to nerf them yet they can hit 3k arcane barrages with a 3 second cd and is a instant cast, which is more then paladin can hit and smaller cooldown, they can down us in under 6 seconds.
I understand certain classes getting anoyed they get a new enemy but it was about time paladins had someone they could kill, though with cooldowns like paladin needs, any class in right spec can kill paladin.
Hahaha!! Now you want to take our god-bubble too!! LOL, thank you for proving my point. No one wants to see Ret Pallys own!!
Lemme give you two a little something to put in your back pocket. When we bubble, we aren’t trying to get out of movement impairing effects; we are using it because we are on the verge of death. This means that we will spend the next 6 seconds or so healing ourselves to full health. If in that 6 seconds you aren’t smart enough to get as far from us as possible, then you you don’t deserved to win that match ’cause you’re just plain stupid. Now that 6 seconds has lapsed and we’re back to full health, we are going to resume our pursuit of you. You, assuming you’re not a total fukin tard, will have bandaged yourself back to full health and have a comfortable cushion between the two of us… the fight begins again only now we’re most likely pretty low on mana. Even if we catch you while the bubble is still up, we’re swinging half as fast as we usually do and won’t have much burst unless we get a very lucky series of crits and a Soc proc that crits too. Rouges would vanish from us or sprint away to bandage. Mages blink and evocate or bandage (now evocate can restore health too). Druids… can’t be killed with or without a bubble so they’re likely to survive anyways… bastards. Shamans.. heal. Priests… heal. Hunters are usually 28 miles away from us anyways and have the fuking New York Zoo combined with Noah’s fuking Arc waiting outside of our bubble so that as soon as it expires we Ret Pallys get the enjoyment of an animal’s cock in our ass… or a few hundred animal cocks.
Toe-to-toe without a bubble and stuns, a ret pally will lose every duel he/she engages in – given the gear is about equal on both sides of the fight. Every single one. They are the few good things we have left going for us.
Did you know that our Repentance was just nerffed down to 6 seconds instead of 10 seconds? That’s now enough for you?? Ok then, how about our burst being significantly reduced? Still not enough for you? You’re right, go ahead and take my god-bubble from me too and, while you’re at it, why not take my anal virginity if the hunter’s pet doesn’t beat you to it? Ya happy yet? While I’m at the store buying some anal lube to ease the rapping you propose, I’ll be sure to trade in my 2H weapon and buy a toothbrush to swing at you instead and, of course, I’ll enchant it with a really tight enchant like Spirit so I’m sure to look like as big of a goone as possible.
Ya ever see the recent South Park where Indiana Jones gets rapped? Ret pallys are like Indiana Jones and you’re like Lucas and Spielberg. Get the metaphor?
Pallys that don’t use their god-bubble as a last ditch effort to survive are running a major risk of wasting it too early on in a fight. Just run and you live. I’m hoping you’ve figured that out by now. Assuming we are in a large grp and have an assigned healer to watch us, you’d be just plain stupid for trying to kill the pally first anyways. Burn the shaman first (if there is one) then kill the healer. Now the pallys bubble will have much less utility other than keeping himself alive as his/her last resort.
You’re welcome :)
God Love You and Game On!
Guessur
^^^^ *Let me give you a little something to put…..
Not “let me give you two a little something…”
Guessur
I’ve played the Pally char for almost 2 years and kept retri in spite of having to put up with the worse and shameful jokes. we’ve been called loladins and 99% of the times laughed about since we were considered a useless class. no use in raids and you get in only if there is really a missing spot and no one else can be found; no use in pvp really if not holy in 5 vs 5. in raids as holy you are going in AFTER a shammy, restodruud or priest unless you wear T6 and others don’t so may be you get a spot.
So that’s why tonight I’m living wow and go play something else. and will never come back to play this stupid game ever again. this is just politics, not game. whoever complains the most wins. it has nothing to do with factual reality. rouges and druids have been on the arena ladder (around the 2000/2200 ratings) forever; no one ever complained about that. no one ever said that pallies could just be kited around to DEATH by any warlock who just pushed three buttons fear-dot-dot-dot-fear-dot-dot-DEAD; no one ever cared is a pally with less than 300 res could just be slaughtered by just about any rouge or war. cause “pally is hybrid”. hybrid on what? ever seen ANY pally with full S4 gear from a 2 vs 2 team? May be he bought it, but that would be LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. Then what’s fair? We’re talking about fairness? It’s just politics whereby blizz probably is afraid too many noobs leave the game cause they can’t just kill pallies with 3-4 button pushes.
was there a problem with burst? was the problem that low lever gear paladins was getting too much advantage? Fine, fix that and DON’T NERF US DOWN TO BEING LOLADINS AGAIN by cutting down just about everydecent buff we got so far. At any rate, it doesn’t even bother me anymnore since I dais wow goodbye and wish you all fun. at least i can decide where to blow my money.
i was so glad to see that paladins finally can do some dmg! we have waited for that! plz dont ruin us again!:/
and to you rogues out there: yes paladins might be able to take you down much easier now then before but I also play a priest, and when I fight a rogue you do the same to priests as paladins do to rogues; dead before we can do anything
cheers
damn programmers should sit their asses down back on their couch and do what they were really meant to do in life……..rather than giving the matter due time……..within a few weeks…a list of nerfs has already been confirmed…..youve got to be fuking kidding me
^^^^^^^^^ To the Above Post By Ziggyz:
It wasn’t a matter of a few weeks that a list of nerfs were laid out for Re Pallys, it was a matter of days. The real reason that we all know that this is a $hit on Ret Pallys is because the only reason they’re doing this to us is due to complaints.
How do I know this, you might ask? I know this because the game is Beta Tested. If they really thought that Ret was WAAAAAY TO OP and had WAAAAAY to much burst prior to the patch realease (patch release 3.0.2), the programmers would have been instructed to make the alterations before releasing the the patch to the general population of gamers. On the contrary, they did not nerf Ret prior to the patch release. They released it as it was intended, gamers bitched and whined about Ret FINALLY being good, and therefore they nerffed Ret…. again. They have done this SO many times to Ret.
Instead of seeing the same ol’ 2’s team take the top of the ranks each week, wouldn’t it be fun to see how the general population responded to a tougher schedule of match up’s? Perhaps change the OP classes a little bit. Tip the scales. Give Ret what they have been deprived of for as long as I can remember. Nope. Same ol’ crap. This is why gamers like Leaver (a few posts above) are moving on to a new game. It’s the same ol’ crap every week. Same ol’ crap every BG. Same ol’ crap every Arena. I was looking forward to a change. A much needed buff to Ret.
The Patch Notes 3.0.3 are already out for the public to read. You can find it via google.com or any other internet search engine. I’ve read it already form head to toe. Most classes are getting a further buff where Ret is getting a HEFTY nerf. It’s the truth. Read it before you try to refute me.
Not sure what else to say. Just a little tired of this residual crud Blizz is putting Ret through.
For those of you who know what I say before I end another of my long posts ( I type too fast):
God Love You and Game On!
Guessur/Striffe
I’m a pally. Been playing one for over two years. It’s my favorite class. always will be. I’ve been forced into the healer role (A role I’ve enjoyed, regardless). I’ve never expected to be a DPS giant or master healer going to a hybrid class. I have however, always wanted to play ret, as it’s the kind of Paladin I’ve always enjoyed in tabletop gaming. The Holy Warrior.
I’m glad that Blizzard has fixed a problem that they allowed to persist for years. Ret pallies have been laughed at and pushed aside and for good reason, we didn’t bring anything to the table. Now we do and many people are eating crow.
HOWEVER, we ARE OP -or were- before these nerfs. I admit it. I didn’t want to go from being under powered to over powered. I just want to be able to play a ret paladin and be accepted in parties as such. I held on to mana better than when I was in Holy spec and that should not be. I’ve seen Ret’s healing better and more efficiently than Holy’s while doing stupid DPS and that’s a problem.
If these nerfs can level us off and not remove my viable utility I’ll be happy.
Frankly these nerfs are also included in some buffs that I did not fail to notice.
I’ll have to wait and see though.
If other classes are OP, the answer isn’t to make me far greater. They need to balance everyone.
I don’t think that any complaint is going to change what bliz has decided to do. It doesn’t want pallies on the top latter and that’s evident. If you like pvp and arena, don’t roll Ret Pally. Ret Pallies above 2000 ratings are just such a small percentage in the wow world that one wonders why bliz just listens to words and complaints instead of factual data. ret pally has been the worse char you could roll for arena. Period. And this time, that it wa sstarting to become viable, it got quickly nerfed. With 3.0.3 it will be even worse so why bother. But I guess there is no choice. If you like pvp, forget ret pallies and roll a rouge or a druud. And if you like the char too much, and can’t play anything else – then quit the game I guess and go play warhammer Unless something very drastically changes at 80, but why do I have the feeling that it never will? Because it never has and pallies have always been on the front line for nerfs.
I recently played my pally (mostly tier5, with 200resilience worth of pvp gear s2/s3), i played with my warrior friend who in pve does 2.6k dps(unbufeD), hes in full venge and 3/5 brutal with 350resilience or so, @ the 1600 bracket we got owned 1win 9losses.
Mage = if we bubble n wings and go to burst them = ice block…then u say we get out of sheep n frostnova with hand of freedom yeah welldone dumbass its called spellsteal, once its gone ur frostnova’ed again and owned by their incredible armor-bypassing 4-6K magic dmg instant casts. they also have nice isntant cast slow, which fucks us if they are arcane spec. so dont u dare fucking QQ.
if ur a rogue and cant fucking trinket + vanish when a pally goes wings + invincible u suck…nuff said?
warlocks, the only thing we have to fight against ur fucking fear is trinket or bubble, in which case u should run away, and in most cases u might survive.
i crit 4-5k judgements in pve on raid bosses, in pvp this figgure drops down to about 1.5k MAX on mages, 2.5K on warlocks, 2.2K on rogues, 1.8K on warriors this figgure varies very slightly if the player is in greens etc and not pvp gear, but its still a massive drop to date, ive NEVER been hit higher than 2.8K dmg by a ret pally judgement, and this was while he had wings and all trinkets poped.
if ur S4 gear and u get downed 5-8k hp in 1 second by a green/blue ret pally, u honestly are probably the worst player ever.
pally nerfs will destroy the pally again, and we will be again LOLRET!!!! so thanks blizzard for making me quit wow forever since im not enough of a loser to reroll and play the forum QQ-ing classes that 12 yearolds play.
mages are biggest load of bullshit so fkn op thats it is just stupid. it was hard enough to kill a frost mage now arcane is even worse.
ret pallys are so OP my ass 2 ret pallys vs 1 mage in arena and we lose ice block invis they can drink in arena sheep then run and drink go invis and drink blink every 30 sec. arcane barrage does 2k normal silence u for 10 seconds then pom pryro and guess what your 10k hp gone in 5 seconds. all you faggots crying about ret pallys bieng op when you should be crying about mages bieng op. for 5 years the only way to pvp with a paladin was to spec holy and every person who has a paldin will agree with me you kill more and last longer we finally can handle our selfs and guess what a nerf cause all you ltlle babys are crying we are the easiest class to kite we have no range what so ever now that the patch has been out for a week or so more and more ppl are learning how to beat ret pallys so instead of crying to blizzard the first day it came out you should of waited and learnt how to beat them. iv dueled every class and everyclass has its ways of beating ret. so if you want to pvp with a paladin we have to roll holy yay thanks blizzard lets dps as a healer
Actually, Guessur, if what you say in your reply is accurate, than my proposed change is fine. I said spells and attacks cannot leave the bubble, not that you cannot take the time in your bubble to heal yourself to full.
My focus on “fairness” in PVP is arena based. They gave a class plate armor, as much sustained damage as any other melee class plus ranged damage of 2-3k to finish off targets getting away, and to top it off, give them 10 seconds of god mode. If two ret pallies in a 2v2 cannot kill one target in 10 seconds of god mode and then survive 2 vs 1, then they are probably missing 3 or 4 fingers on each of their hands.
I don’t advocate taking away the bubble; however, I do think they need to reexamine giving the bubble to a class that already has everything without attaching any drawbacks to it at all.
I play ret pally, and agree alot of people here make good points about the whole killed under a 5 second stun, big crazy burst damage and so on, but i dont play PvP, someone else here said if all this beef has come from PvP, why not nerf retadins for PvP conflict but leave the PvE side alone? FINALY after 3.0.2 doing raids and partys I was up there with the other classes, before to even get to mid table on hte damage chart you had to realy pull out all the stops and hope for some luck with repeated crits. I just feel now because alot of people are whining about PvP side, us PvE pallys are gonna be shunned away form getting parts again.
@Coilfang:
I have yet to see battlegrounds with >50% arcane mages. However, I have seen it several times since the patch with ret paladins. In fact, I have seen fewer mages since the patch. If they made mages on par with the godliness that was ret, we would see similar representation from them all over the place; however, that is just not the case.
I have a 70 Frost/Arcane Mage and oh that Ice Block is a piece of shit for 10 seconds unlike the pally bubble. Inside the ice you cant even move/heal/hearth like the pally can so stop your crying about getting nerfed. You can do anything you want in that stupid bubble and get away with it hearth/heal/fight. If I can’t keep a pally frozen in place all it takes is 5 seconds to end it for me.
Guessur’s Blizzard Programmer’s other Programmer friend:
progammmer 1 “Hey Tod take a look at this kid with a level 70 Ret pally, HAH, look at him”
programmer 2 “wtf is he trying to do?”
programmer 1 “wtf do you think hes doing Tod, hes trying to kill a lvl 17 priest that has +Fire damage gear, and hes getting his ass kicked!!!”
programmer 2 “wait, a lvl 70 ret pally is getting worked by a lvl 17 priest that thinks he might at some point cast a fireball???? HUUH…. oh my……. OMG…..that cant be right…. that priest is….. holy shit! that priest is stuffing lit BlackCat firecrackers in that ret pallys dickhole!!!”
programmar 1 “i KNOW!! ISNT IT HELARIOUS!!! and get this, we’ve been folowing this ret pally around every where he goes and deleting new loot he receives from his bags, HAH, hes so poor and worthless hes been running DMs by himself just to try and get some type of gear and he whipes unless he has 4 other lvl tens run him through”
programmar 2 “…….. actually….. that is, kind of….. funny, hahahahahah, hey hey!! lets give him a new spell!!!! Lets call it,
[ignite's Pubes] 34 second cast time : While casting Ignite’s Pubes, the player has a 40% chance for computer to shut down. While casting 34 second Ignite’s Pubes spell, 34 gold is removed from your bags, and 34 dollars from your registered credit card account. Once Ignite’s Pubes is sucessfully casted (only 60% chance) the character is ported straight to Arthas, where you are one shotted out of world of warcraft and sent straight to The Sims video game, the worst game in the world. After the spell is completed, player shit’s his/her pants from utter anger of having to play The Sims that he/she Exhausts pipe’n hot diareah that Ignite’s the players Pubes, causing irrverable rectal damage. ”
programmer 1 “OMG THATS GREAT HAHA, THATS AWESOME, LETS MAKE A GLYPH THAT INCREASES THE CHANCE FOR IGNITES PUBES TO SHUT DOWN YOUR COMPUTER!! “
^^^^^^^^^^^^ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Never have I ever read something so funny in all of my life. That’s hilarious! I’m going to go ignite my pubes really quick, brb.
ERK, ur a tard. We still are barely able to catch an unstunable hunter, a mage with bilnk, blah blah blah. We still get worked as soon as the bubble wears off and rarely have a chance to do much while it’s up on us unless you’re a pro like me and know when to use it to your best advantage.
Our sustained damage blows. I’m investing in that toothbrush with Spirit Enchant to see if things improve any. You want good sustained damage? Mages with endless instant casts while kiting your ass, rouges…. nuf said, warriors…. make my cock shrivel, hunters…. can’t be stunned and their pet is like a fukin MS warrior. In a Duel? Maybe things are a little different in a duel, but in a BG, Arena or PVE…. forget about even trying after the patch that came out today.
Don’t try to pretend that you know what you are talking about when it comes to pallys. I’ve rolled one from the beginning and I know what it feels like to have a fat hott turd on top of your head for a very long time…. not so good.
Guessur
Guessur:
“ERK, ur a tard. We still are barely able to catch an unstunable hunter, a mage with bilnk,”
I’d take barely being able to catch them to not being able to catch them at all (see: assassination tree.) Of all the melee dps classes in the game, you were the one with plate armor, a bubble, BOF, a ranged slow, and enough ranged dps to finish off a target if they manage get away with ~20% health.
Look at any other melee DPS class’ drawbacks, take away half of them, and you get a retribution paladin. The extra movement granting abilities a paladin can get SHOULD be offset by less burst, not increased because the programmers accidentally increased their burst beyond what was intended.
The whole issue is very similar to the problem they were having with a rogue’s poisons scaling with attack power in beta. It made us much too bursty, but they fixed that problem before it went live. They had so many changes to the paladin class all at once, that when they saw the unbalanced burst from ret paladins in beta, rather than holding back their patch from live, they fixed what they thought was causing the issue. It turns out that was only half of the problem though, so now they have fixed the rest of it.
Guessur i salute u..
the only reason other ppl r bitchn about us being OP is b/c there not used 2 us doing “actual” damage….EVERY1 got up’d in the game but us pallys got our ass raped by the nerf bat wen every1 else still has their upgrades. PATCH us bak up blizz!
The nerfs happened why do you people continue to post here? Yes I am aware I said I wouldn’t post on this thread anymore, but I think it’s time to step in. Guessur, I’m aware you’re pissed off your class isn’t composed of demigods anymore but now you’re just being a plain dick. Honestly I don’t think 1400 rated pallies who don’t know shit about their classes deserve 1800-2000, but that’s just me. Back to the point I hardly think insulting Erk was necessary. He gave a perfectly respectful answer(unlike me) and I think the least you could do show him the same courtesy back instead of calling him a tard. If there’s anyone to direct your flames at it should be me, not someone who articulated a perfectly reasonable response with a clean mouth and maturity. Seriously “ignite pubes” what are you fucking twelve?
Erk, I think you will find we dont have a ranged slow we have a limit speed whats about 10yrd range which is only 5 more then a melee classes attacks and they can still move 100% speed, we only have about 8-9k armour which is less then double my rogues, we dont have that good increased movement we can freedom for few seconds what is easily debuffed, we dont have anything to get towards your enemy fast like ss rogues, warriors and druids, yes we have a 5 minute cooldown that makes us immune for 12 seconds but if we have talent for 15% inc speed chances are the enemy has the inc movement speed and stam which means they have 8% inc movement thats only 7% faster then target do you know how long it takes to get to target if they just 20 yards a running, if a mage will just nova and if frost u will have loads of inc frost crits on you so u cant just debuff it and if slow it will still cost u several yards before possible to dispel even if spamming and freedom gets stolen right away, many classes have immunity type spells that can be used in a fight like if we shield a mage can ice block or a rogue can do several evasions which makes are melee attacks totally hopeless with a 80%+ chance to dodge, we also have less resilience of are armour then other people so we can be critted more and higher making up for any armour, are stun maybe 6 seconds but its only half the cooldown of a trinket and you can just run from a shield for long anoth to for it to go down.
Btw i have seen alot of mages since patch alway at top but only seen loads of paladins when it first came out only normally me in pvp games now with 5+ mages on other team in eots.
I am sorry for bad spelling a grammer, i am quite tired and really don’t feel like writing it out well.
Well…there certainly has been a lot of interesting posts and thoughts here, and while it is interesting that’s about all it is. Clearly there’s a lot of long bent of frustrations from ret paladins who have been more or less worthless until the patch 3.0.2 changes.
And while I do agree there needed to be some changes and buffs to the spec…there’s no question in my mind that the buffs were excessive to say the least. You can’t sit here and tell me that Blizzard intended ret. paladins to be able to drop targets in the duration of a hammer or a do 3-4 times as many damage as any other class in a battleground.
These nerfs are required, plain and simple.
Ok I’ve had a chance to play these nerfs and they suck ass. I really want to beat the shit out of Ghostwalker at this point. If sucking for the entirety of TBC wasn’t bad enough and completely unforgivable from a design point of view alone, now we finally get good and instantly nerfed to oblivion? Because selfish, bitter pricks who refuse to leave the “loladin” mentality shit a gripe hardcore?
What the FUCK is with JoW?
A CHANCE on hit for 1% of my mana? Thanks for nothing. Literally.
The devs are clearly guys who grew up playing D&D and resented the Paladin class for being popular and prestigious. Now they under appreciate them in their little MMO.
Thanks Ghostwalker and the rest of the fools at Blizzard who turned the image of the great paladin, into a joke.
God even Warhammer got it right off the bat.
Iam a good geared (PVP) retri pala.
I have tested some dmg now after the last nerf (3.0.3) and its quite the same dmg but not as fast as it used to be… But to the point, almost everyone talks about rogue problems when the biggest problem of all in pvp is mages. Iam merciless/brutal and cant get a medicore geared mage down, its totaly impossible cant get to em.
We have nothing to get into a mage… If we somehow get near them the blink or iceblock and crit 4k with a frostbolt and when you hit em you get slowed!?!?
Solve that problem.. only chance i have to get a mage down is if i dont have the Divine Shield, pvp trinket on cooldown and the mage have blink and iceblock on cooldown! If we stun em the blink out or iceblock, they get distance the pawn with their magic dmg that crits for god knows what. The only chance we had to get mages down was to crit high and burst em down fast, so its even harder now =(
Same with healers cant get em down if you cant do heavy dmg on em and there again as pala (melee) you need to be close to em.
Shure rogues can be pain in the as to. When you are stunned until you die! Thats not fair ill think. With Warlock you easy get pawnd when rogues pops upp behind you, have 460 res warlock with over 12k hp still have no chance, sometimes no chance with pala to, stun, shop shop shop shop, stun shop shop dead!
The thing about Palas ill think is if you are ranged and get close to a paladin you have fail! The paladins should have adv in close combat. Retri palas have 15% faster running but almoast every other class have somekinda adv to flee or get near a opponent.
like stealth/vanish, charge, travel form/ghostwolf, hunter aspect of cheeta or what it is called and so on.. palas run a little faster “If you have talents on it” But no thats nothing cant keep up with others anyway..
if you are range like for exampel mage or hunter you can easy kite a pala til it dies. But many hunter think they are good in closecombat to a melee, seems like it when you join bg, many havent understand how to play ranged (keep range). Tehn keep range and you as an ranged player have the adv of atleast pala who cant charge or flee somehow.
So give pala something to easier get into a target or keep the burst, my opinion!
Ill think the real class to nerf is mages! Over and out…….
Thanks for the defense, S-Scythe, but I’m used to being attacked for no reason. The truth is, if you put some thought and reason into posts on the internet, 95% of the people you are trying to converse with have no other response but to claim that you’re retarded, Hitler, or Stalin, depending on the audience.
I actually kind of enjoy being insulted like that though. Anyone with whom I would associate with recognizes that its the last futile attempt of the unarmed in a battle of wits to resort to such tactics, so its kind of a relief when people show their true colors and I no longer have to waste my time in reading anything they post in the future.
Go play Warhammer then Ais, Blizzard sure as hell has plenty of happy customers around the globe.
Idiots, yes, us ret pallies are OP… yes we deserve the nerf. Stop whining, the game is supposed to be challenging, I-WIN buttons are for GMs…
Thanks S-scythe, you boot licking fanboy.
so much anger in this post…it all seems quite irrelevant though since the nerfs are going to happen regardless.
*sings*
caaaaaan you feeeeel the looooove toooonight?
I have to ask Ais, what is this site about?
World of Warcraft
Another question: Have you seen a drastic change in your damage output other than the time it takes to get out?
You’re probably still pretty high up in arena ratings and I have to say these nerfs while they do suck haven’t had much effect towards me at all. Ret pallies still put out pretty awesome damage it’s just been slightly delayed. The nerfs happened and you still have to make attacks towards players who meet here and a game developer who’s simply doing their job. Fuck you.
Screw this posting here isn’t bringing me any entertainment anymore. The main QQer’s have either learned to deal and move on or are hating Blizzard in silence. Aislingi if you want to keep arguing with me go right ahead, but no more responses seeing as how you have a false sense of superiority because you don’t like WoW as much as me. Yes, I am a fanboy. Seeing as how I’ve played the game for about 3-4 years now and still play even though it potentially can piss me off is enough to state that I’m willing to defend the game. Again go play War Hammer and quit bitching about WoW. Your class got nerfed, and it reminds of rogues in patch 1.6. Nobody was having fun and even the worst of rogues came out on top.
on a brief side note…congrats to scythe, he was the 1000th approved comment on Zug Gaming! (17,000 spam comments…/sigh)
warriors cant play for 2 years now so stop crying
ok so i havent eneter a gamecard for a month and i log in to my pally happy with his damage i log in and the damage is rediculously low!! he used to kill ppl in a few hits a full prot palla in like 3-4 hits now it takes like 6-7hts! OMG
this is why i made a deathknight and once i spent too much time leveling him.. tehy also nerfed the dk’s!!! now rogues have the fucking win
Could be just your gear was out of date, and not the class. These nerfs are so old, it could be any number of things…