Rogue Arena Talent Specs
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There are two major specs for rogues in arena, there is room for some variance in each, though the basics should be kept the same to maximize your ability to play the class at the highest level.
Rogue Combat Arena Talent Specs
20/41/0 Combat (vile poison version)
20/41/0 Combat (vile poison, no riposte version)
18/43/0 Combat (imp. EA version)
16/45/0 Combat (my preference)
The basic combat talent spec offers you a great deal of utility, survivability, and damage. My talent spec has been a variation of the 20/41 build since the latter half of season one. I like the spec because it offers solid burst damage during the AR as well as great-sustained damage throughout the fight. If surprise attacks wasn’t reason enough to spec deep combat the additional bonuses of combat potency, nerves of steel, improved sprint, and improved kick should be. With so much stun resist in the game landing your kidney shot has become of utmost importance, IE I don’t want to have to worry about a dodged KS, surprise attacks takes care of that.
With 20/41 you have a bit of flexibility, first in the choice of weapons. You can choose from mace spec, sword spec, or fist spec. My recommendation, if you have the weapons, would be to spec maces. The stun proc on top of the +10 weapon skill puts it far beyond the benefits gained from sword or fist spec. Control for a rogue has always been the most important attribute for a rogue in pvp, and mace spec helps you extend that control even more. In the event Blizzard changes sword spec back to a yellow damage proc, which would remove the current dual wield miss penalty imposed on white attacks, you could make a cast for swords. Though I currently cannot see any reason to spec anything other than maces so long as you have quality weapons. With as much resilience in the game as there is now fist spec is virtually useless, and so long as sword spec procs are white damage I’d shy away from them as well for pvp.
There’s a bit of room for variation in the spec, and it really depends on what your preference abilities are. Personally I’ve chosen to go with 19/42 on my rogue, which allows me to get all the regular talents in assassination, but also gives me room to pickup improved expose armor, which I find myself using quite frequently vs. priests and a selection of other classes where I’m able to stick to a target for long durations. The key to this build is obviously the 41-point combat talent; so long as you’ve got that then you have a bit of room to play in the assassination tree and are able to customize it according to your play style.
Rogue Arena Mutilate Specs
41/20/0 Mutilate (I’m not a big imp. KS fan, if you are you can work points around from murder / ruthlessness / vile poisons to get it)
50/0/11 Mutilate (Heavy poisons, ideal for 2v2 with a healer)
49/0/12 Mutilate (Heavy poisons, full MoD)
In my opinion mutilate is the only other truly viable arena specs, there are a few strange hybrid builds which are available, though if you are going combat I’d suggest looking at the build above, else if you are a dagger fan go for mutilate. The great thing about mutilate is quite simply the great damage and combo point generation is supplies even when you aren’t critting. In addition it’s got fantastic burst damage during a Kidney shot, which actives both your improved KS (+9% damage) and expose weakness (+10% damage). Let me tell you, anything which modifies by percent in this game is overpowered, simply because the only balancing limitation imposed is via the quality of weapons you are able to attain.
The major dilemma for me here was always whether to choose the 1.4 speed traditional off-hand dagger, or go with the bomb dropping pair of main hand 1.8 speeds. Your biggest draw back to mutilate is the poison application, though for the most part shiv is able to at least get you started and then, so long as you stay on the target, your poisons should hold pretty well. So if you aren’t worried too much about having to spam shiv, as the energy cost is marginally higher with the 1.8 over the 1.4, then go for a pair of main hand daggers. The +50% damage from off-hand specialization in the combat tree will allow your off-hand to hit nearly as hard, and sometimes harder, than your main-hand dagger. For example, cs, mutilate, it crits, 5 cps, wait for energy tick, ks, +19% damage, cold blood, mutilate. Quite simply put this combo, or similar combos to this, is why mutilate is such a strong spec. You’ve got great sustainable damage, awesome combo point generation, and the ability to through some of the highest burst damage combos in the game.
Rogue Shadowstep Arena Specs
20/0/41 Shadowstep
18/0/43 Shadowstep (imp. EA, ideal for double melee teams)
For virtually all of the Burning Crusade subtly talent specs were pretty horrible. Though patch 2.3 changed it all.
While shadowstep is viable it may not be the best choice for your teams makeup. You’ll want to develop a variety of fast target switching mechanics with your team in order to extract maximum benefit from the spec.
Rogue Hybrid Arena Specs
26/0/35 Hybrid Hemo
This is the type of spec that is ideal for your double melee rush down teams. In essence, rogue / warrior / druid teams. With this type of rush down combo you really don’t need shadowstep, so having the extra points in assassination really helps to give you that extra bit of on command damage you need to drop the bombs.
- Shaman Arena Talent Specs
- Druid Arena Talent Specs
- Rogue / Prest 2v2 Arena Strategy
- Priest / Rogue vs. Mage / Rogue 2v2 Arena Strategy
- Priest / Rogue vs. Druid / Warrior 2v2 Arena Strategy
Hey with the 16/45 spec arn’t you seriously hindering yourself without the Master of Deception Subtlety talent? I love your website and I see how the huge increase in damage would help but still lacking stealth ability which is so key to a rogue still confuses me.
Well, this is a yes and no type of question. Yes, you are correct in the fact that you are hindered to a degree without MoD. However, 16/45/0 is the type of spec that isn’t designed around an opener.
The biggest point to consider here is that in a 2v2 match you average match length is going 4-10 minutes, during that time you probably only had one opener that relied on stealth talents.
So the rest of the time you are running around with a talent that provides you absolutely nothing. It’s really more of a rogue / priest 2s spec, though I’ve played it in 3s effectively as well. It really just comes down to play style and being able to compensate for the lack of stealth on the initial opener.
Thanks I see what you mean i have a real life friend bringing up a disc priest hes almost 70 so trust me I have been reading your site religiously and just so you know it is awesome! Thanks very much for such a quick response as well!
No prob at all, glad to be of some help.
After the most recent patch released on 7/15/08, do you still prefer combat over shs? Does riposte make a big difference in arena or would you rather go endurance if you had to choose between the two?
Sorry, I also wanted to ask why you didn’t get Aggression. Thanks!
For reference, this is the spec I’m talking about http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboxZG0EdrVt0d0Rt
and yes, I still prefer it over any shs build for rogue + healer 2v2. And Yes, riposte does make a huge difference as it allows you to absolutely punish other rogues / warriors, which percentage base make up the largest number of 2v2 teams in WoW.
Though, I still get endurance.
The reason I do not get aggression is because it’s not worth the 3 points you have to put in to it. For starters I never evis as combat, therefore 1/2 of the talents effectiveness is immediately lost.
Secondly, as combat aprx. 70% of my total damage comes from what damage, with 25% from SS, and 5% shiv, poisons, etc.
So this means i’m blowing 3 points on a skill which provides only 6% more damage to an attack which is only makes up 1/4 of my output for 3 points. No matter what way you look at it it’s a poor choice of talents.
Thank you so much for your very quick response. About 5 minutes after I posted the question about Aggression, I came to the same conclusion about SS being a small % of overall damage.
That is a good point about riposte.
Endurance vs Imp EA is another thing I’ve been thinking about. What are your thoughts about that? (Obviously you favor endurance over imp EA, but why?) Thanks again.
That’s one of those personal preference things. Although the reason for picking endurance over Improve Exposed Armor is how much you’ll be effectively using sprint, evasion or Expose armor. Expose armor really shines for lower armored targets like Warlocks, priests and druids(in cat or caster form), but for targets with higher armor just keeping up SnD is more worth your energy and combo points. Endurance again is in no way a necessity, but sometimes having two sprints or evasions on smaller cooldowns can help for longer matches.
Like Scythe said It’s more of a personal preference thing. I really have always felt EA is too situational to warrant the 2 points into the imp. talent. The only class I consistently use it on is priests.
Beyond that I’m just focused on maintaining a solid SND / KS rotation.
Does Murder count to PvP targets?
Does Weapon Expertise count to PvP targets?
Yes, both murder and weapon expertise count towards pvp targets.
Ok, from the second I hit 70 I was told by every Rogue I ever came in contact with, “Every good rogue uses SS in the arena”. And when you inspect people, EVERYONE is SS. What am I missing?
To me SS, is huge in arena for the mobility. So what if you have sustained damage if your target is 20 yards away?
I play 2′s with Druid/(H)Priest/Lock and 3s with Warrior/Lock/(R)Druid/(H)Priest. So im mainly working with casters.
I get yelled at enough for “not being on the guy” even with SS.
I love the sub talents but feel like im not doing enough damage and I am geared really well.
Whats more important in arena Stun Lock or Damage? I feel like we win cause im just holding the guy there with the multiple vanish CS.
Is there anything to a Mutilate/Sub spec?
Lot of questions. Sorry.
I assume your comment, “So what if you have sustained damage if your target is 20 yards away?”, is in reference to my combat talent spec recommendation.
The thing here is…you don’t go combat spec to go out drop bombs on a target and win the match in 30 seconds. Combat is a more methodical approach to playing rogue / priest.
For starters it requires your priest (or what ever healer you are playing with) be incredibly good at maintaining his mana throughout the match. But, with a good priest the combat spec allows you to play beyond your opponents cooldowns and timers.
And once they are down, the raw damage output and lockdown power the spec provides will allow you to win the match.
As far as mutilate is concerned I’ll say this, if you’re having issues staying on the target as shs then you are really going to hate mutilate. Yes, it doesn’t have excellent burst damage and high output with a full energy bar, but your challenged not only in mobility, but also in the aspect of a positional attack.
To me dagger rogues are a special breed, especially as they pertain to pvp. It requires such precise energy management and positional awareness that it collectively creates one of the most difficult talent specs for a rogue to play well.
Thanks. Let me say this. I am not having issues staying on the target as sh. Its more bout my partner’s lack of sense when im being ccd. i can only pop the trinket once!
I used to be a BS rogue and am quite used to striking frombehind with enough energy.
it looks like im gonna be partner with the lock 75% of the time for 2s. So which would u reccomend? mutilate or ss?
i think im gonna try mutilate 50/0/11 or some variation there of. never did it and it at least seems like a good challenge.
If you’re playing with a lock either mut or shs is a fine talent spec. Personally I’d go with shs, but that’s just because I was never a fan of positional talent specs.
Uhh… where are the builds that have Serrated Blades… You only need 41 points into mutilate, not 50. I personally picked up 2 extra points in Quick Recovery to help my healer. And combat specs for arena are awful, you should update this page.
First off, if 20 points into the sub tree were viable for mutilate I would have listed it. Secondly, combat specs are not awful…in fact I’d go as far as to say they are the only true option for serious rogue / priest teams. I’ve played deep combat specs to the 2400 rating every season with a 16/45/0 spec and find there’s no spec that even comes close to matching combat’s overall effectiveness.
Hey Zuggy, I noticed you are currently Shadowstep. I play as Shs with a disc priest but I am considering switching to combat maces. Is there a reason you aren’t maces right now? Should I stay Shadowstep? Let me know your thoughts, feel free to armory me and my priest and give some tips.
-Manbean from Bonechewer
Well, I haven’t been playing much arena lately. I’m kind of between teams at the moment so I’m spec’d shadowstep for battlegrounds and such. If I was playing with a priest in 2s I’d be 16/45/0 combat, no questions asked.
Hi,
I currently play 2vs2 with an other rogue. We are both Shadowstep specced.
As you state 18/0/43 Shadowstep is ideal for both melee teams. i was wondering if the same goes for double Rogue teams or should we change 2 16/45/0 Combat?
And… I currently use hemo alot since it cost less energy. but i hear a lot of ppl saying that hemo isnt better then SS because you will miss the target more often?
Should i use Hemo or SS?
Tnx ^^
as double rogue you really have no other option but shs. If you fail to get the opener you lose, plain and simple. It is true that you will miss more as shs, due to not having precision, but this is just the nature of the beast.
So just go hemo.
Hey Zuggy,
The 16/45/0 spec looks interesting for me. But, in short, why do you choose to only have 1 point in Weapon Expertise? With the 16/45/0 play-style, would you advise against stacking expertise (e.g., 2/2 Weapon Expertise and the Shard of Contempt?) I was thinking either having 1/2 Weapon Expertise + The Shard of Contempt or 2/2 Weapon Expertise + Berserker’s Call. Or would 2/2 Weapon Expertise + The Shard of Contempt be ideal, even though it might go over the cap for some PvP targets?
Thanks,
Gymnos.
Honestly, I haven’t updated this page in quite some time. Previously it was my preferred spec, but after some weeks of consideration and thought I think I would go 2/2 weapon expertise by moving 1 point from imp. kick into weapon expertise and 1 point into imp. snd.
What about Endurance and Blade Twisting? I can (kind of) understand getting them, but do arena matches at that level for the Endurance to be effective? What about Blade Twisting? Is that for incase your crippling poison is dispelled or to help from druid kiting or something?
I pick up blade twisting simply because it’s the old “gotcha!” card when a druid / shaman / paladin thinks they can just spam dispel and run. As far as endurance goes…I don’t know, I just like it. Having those extra cooldowns has won many match matches in clutch situations.
Beyond that, there really is nothing better in my opinion. I see no reason to go any deeper in assassination, and besides maybe 3/3 imp. snd there’s nothing that even remotely peaks my interest.